Stuart talks to Danielle and Laszlo of Plattekill

It’s refreshing to hear real people talk. Danielle and Laszlo are heroes of the ski world. There’s lots of Platty love around here and for good reason. I’ve skied there a handful of times and I wish it could be more. I’m self employed with seasonal work and winter is my down time so I try to I take advantage of skiing midweek. Not being open on those days is the main reason I don’t have a pass there and have one at Belleayre instead.

I had two days there this year. One was the Powderdaize which rivaled any powder day out west. I convinced my buddy Sickman who had just purchased his late season pass at Belleayre and was excited to use it for the first time to drive passed and go to Platty. I bought his ticket to compensate so it was $176 for me to ski that day and it was well worth it even though I could have skied down the road for free.

The other day I skied there they were closed and I bought an uphill ticket for $30 and skied one run with no one around. Again, well worth it and I’d do it again.

The angst between Platty and NYS running Belleayre is well documented here. Some of it stated directly on the front page. No doubt there is an unfair advantage. Just curious though how much the location of the two mountains play into skier visits. What if they were swapped? Would people drive passed Platty to go to Belle? Is the state at fault for being closer for most people?

I’m not sure the state doesn’t compete with other private businesses. Campgrounds are one recreational example, especially in the Catskills. Schools are another that I can think of off the top of my head from kindergarten all the way to university. I’m sure there are others. ORDA competes with all other ski areas in the state not just Platty, it’s just that they are closest and maybe feel it the most. ORDA also competes with Vail, all of Vermont and more importantly climate change. The money they have invested is an insane amount but it also means insurance for skiing in the immediate future. I agree the least they can do is offer up some used chair parts or the whole lift as is the case of the double Northface Express that came from Belle.

I applaud Platty for giving their employees full time work. Moving to private rentals was a smart move. Competing with higher wages is tough. But should NY not pay their employees well? I thought the whole reason they are up there is to establish an economy in a depressed area.

If ORDA hadn’t taken over Belle from the DEC that place could be closed. Additionally, if Laszlo and Danielle hadn’t saved Platty we could have been left with just Hunter and Windham. As a consumer having choices is a good thing. I hope the relationship between them improves in the future.

I got to ski all four of the Catskill areas in two days this last season. The differences are striking. Each one is fun to ski and they all have their own pros and cons. One thing was definitely clear though, Platty is a special place.
 
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To me, the most important part of the pod is at 1:20 when Danielle explains what they are doing, and why their customers are willing to pay more for a Plattekill ticket or pass.

I totally agree with Danielle that customers are willing to pay for the experience and value that Platty delivers, but the problem with their season pass pricing isn't against Vail, Ikon, or ORDA, it's against their own day ticket pricing. This subject has been talked about plenty, but it's hard to justify an ~$800 pass, when prime day tickets are usually less then $100/day bought in advance, and they run tons of discounts for BOGO, 50% off pass holders for other mountains, etc. All for a place that just isn't open all that much to the public. Later in the convo they talked about not joining Indy because they didn't want people on "discounted tickets" riding the lift with regular customers, but that's how I felt using my season pass when season pass holders of other mountains were getting something like $30 tickets?

That being said I'm a big fan of Platty, just maybe a day ticket guy in the future.
 
One thing Stuart got wrong... Plattekill didn't pick up the double from ORDA. That lift changed hands a decade before ORDA was in the picture at Belle.

If the day ticket works better for you buy day tickets. Obviously Laz and Danielle are fine with that, it's their pricing. I'd save money with day tickets. I had six days this year. I like having that pass (and SKI3) in my pocket. I got 11 days at Gore, that pass was probably "paid off."

What Danielle was referring to was the comparison of a Platty pass vs Belle pass or any other hill.

Any car gets you from point a to point b. Why do some people pay 30k for a car and others pay 80k? Because each customer thinks the car they are buying works best for them.
 
You’re right. The older I get, the more I think we need all three tiers for the industry to remain healthy. Feeder hills play a vital role in getting people into the sport and building lifelong skiers. The mega passes are very affordable for cash strapped twenty somethings and casual participants. Plattekill is something else. It’s a spectrum but it all works together symbiotically.
I like the optimism.

I think feeder hills will have a place for a long time to come.

Plattekill has the trifecta of snow and terrain and owners who get it. I think other indies could be more vulnerable.

One thing I like fantasizing about is the expansion between Overlook and Ridge Run. Stuart is right, that area is bigger than it looks:


@snoloco would like that they aren't cutting those trails until they get snowmaking on Overlook. I'd like to see a trail cut now, but I totally get why they aren't doing it.
 
I want that area to stay wooded- maybe thin them out really aggressively. I’m also not a fan of widening Chute. That trail is unique and risk mitigation/ legal issues would probably prevent anything that narrow getting added.
 
There is talk of widening chute?
 
I know I sound like a broken record but I proudly enjoy reminding everyone that I’ve been saying for years that the mega pass phenomenon will ultimately have a favorable affect for a lot of mom and pop operations.
Pretty sure that Jon Schaefer of Berkshire East and Catamount has told Stuart that Ikon/Epic have made it easier for his mountains to carve out an identity. Meaning in comparison to before so many resorts in the northeast were on that type of mega pass.

December 2019

Vaguely remember Doug Fish of the Indy Pass saying something similar. I know there are people in the DC/NoVA area who are avoiding Epic passes in favor of Indy now that VR owns 7 of the resorts within a few hours drive of DC. Timberline in WV is fully independent and probably benefitting from people in the region who don't want to get an Epic pass.
 
The upside of a full price season pass is that the window tickets stay somewhat affordable.
Perhaps also means that the number of season passes sold naturally stays manageable. So no risk of being overrun by pass holders who might be annoyed by day ticket folks showing up on a good snow day.
 
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