Ripitz
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- Joined
- Dec 23, 2020
Do I have to choose or can I be both?
The snow train still runs to the Catskills. Sometimes it’s the journey and the destination.
One section still runs the Polar Express.
Last edited:
Ski Bowl 3.0 at Gore
- Thread starter snoloco
- Start date
The snow train still runs to the Catskills. Sometimes it’s the journey and the destination.
One section still runs the Polar Express.
Campgottagopee
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- Jul 20, 2020
LOL!
gorgonzola
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- Jul 21, 2020
I laughed.
Back in the day I took the commuter train from New Rochelle to Poughkeepsie and back a few times, 200 cm hexcels and all.
My buddy would pick me up from Palenville to ski Huntah for the weekend, those were fun times!
Campgottagopee
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- Jul 20, 2020
Hexcels!
I forgot all about those
I forgot all about those
Roll on, Rippers.
x10003q
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- Jul 21, 2020
When we lived in Manhattan I did a thought about taking the Amtrak Ethan Allen 'Express' (NY Penn to Rutland) for our family of 3 (with our 8 year old) to ski for a weekend at Killington. It was just this side of impossible with a nice layer of expensive.
The train time, leaving on a Friday afternoon, was between 7 to 8 hours and this does not include getting to NY Penn Station and then getting from Rutland Station to our Killington Lodging (which had to be slopeside or at least on some shuttle system). Total door to door travel time was roughly 10 plus hours. Now repeat it on Sunday afternoon. The cost just for the travel was more than $500. Needless to say, we never did it. Most of the regular skiers I knew in NYC had access to a car/carpool/rented a car to go skiing for the weekend. Some also did bus trip packages.
I am sure there are people who take the train, I just have never met anybody who did.
TheGreatAbyss
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- Jul 23, 2020
I used to take it, but just to Albany where my car was waiting. I think a big part of the problem is that Amtrak is very local after that
snoloco
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- Jan 1, 2021
Finally, I get to share my extensive knowledge of trains on this site.
X is incorrect about the speed of the Ethan Allen Express, as 7.5 hours is approximately the travel time since they extended it to Burlington in 2022. It used to only go to Rutland, with a travel time of about 5.5 hours, and it still stops there, with about the same travel time today. The schedule no longer works for ski weekenders. It used to be that the northbound departure time was later on Fridays, and the southbound departure time was later on Sundays. But with the longer route, this is no longer practical, and it has to run at the same time every day. The high ticket prices are the result of it being yield-managed due to how high the demand is. Certainly could do a lot better with speed and frequency, but it is hardly a failure for what it is now.
The snow train to Gore wasn't really something anyone asked for or even wanted to operate. Iowa Pacific was given control of the line, with the condition that they operate passenger service on it. Not excursion service, but passenger service. The snow train, as well as the round trips that were made in the summer qualified. The only reason Iowa Pacific was interested in the line is because they had a singular potential freight customer who wanted to haul a million tons of rock out of Tahawus every year. However, once that deal fell through, the lost all interest in continuing to operate the line, and essentially abandoned it. Now a tourist train operates on a much smaller portion of the line, out of Corinth.
The track from Saratoga to North Creek is likely only maintained to FRA Class 2, for a top speed of 40 mph, and an average speed of about 25 mph for the schedule that the snow train used. There are portions of the line straight enough to allow for higher speeds, but the track class is what controls here. The line from Saratoga to Schenectady is FRA Class 3, for a top speed of 60 mph. From Schenectady to Albany, there is a portion that is Class 6, which allows for up to 110 mph.
That being said, there is a feasible and reasonable way to bring back the snow train, and have it be more useful than it was before. This would involve upgrading the track to FRA Class 3, with a 60 mph top speed. If an average speed of 45 mph is achieved, then that is a travel time of 1:15 from Saratoga. Operationally, the best thing to do would be to make it a state-supported Amtrak route, like Colorado did with the Winter Park Express. It could run from Albany via Schenectady and Saratoga, and then go to North Creek. Ideally, a transfer gondola would take people to the ski bowl base. Is it an expensive operation to set up? Yes. But given the increasingly common access road backups and parking headaches, maybe it's time to give people another option. I live in Saratoga, so I'd certainly consider using it if it were available, and the schedule allowed me to ski open to close.
X is incorrect about the speed of the Ethan Allen Express, as 7.5 hours is approximately the travel time since they extended it to Burlington in 2022. It used to only go to Rutland, with a travel time of about 5.5 hours, and it still stops there, with about the same travel time today. The schedule no longer works for ski weekenders. It used to be that the northbound departure time was later on Fridays, and the southbound departure time was later on Sundays. But with the longer route, this is no longer practical, and it has to run at the same time every day. The high ticket prices are the result of it being yield-managed due to how high the demand is. Certainly could do a lot better with speed and frequency, but it is hardly a failure for what it is now.
The snow train to Gore wasn't really something anyone asked for or even wanted to operate. Iowa Pacific was given control of the line, with the condition that they operate passenger service on it. Not excursion service, but passenger service. The snow train, as well as the round trips that were made in the summer qualified. The only reason Iowa Pacific was interested in the line is because they had a singular potential freight customer who wanted to haul a million tons of rock out of Tahawus every year. However, once that deal fell through, the lost all interest in continuing to operate the line, and essentially abandoned it. Now a tourist train operates on a much smaller portion of the line, out of Corinth.
The track from Saratoga to North Creek is likely only maintained to FRA Class 2, for a top speed of 40 mph, and an average speed of about 25 mph for the schedule that the snow train used. There are portions of the line straight enough to allow for higher speeds, but the track class is what controls here. The line from Saratoga to Schenectady is FRA Class 3, for a top speed of 60 mph. From Schenectady to Albany, there is a portion that is Class 6, which allows for up to 110 mph.
That being said, there is a feasible and reasonable way to bring back the snow train, and have it be more useful than it was before. This would involve upgrading the track to FRA Class 3, with a 60 mph top speed. If an average speed of 45 mph is achieved, then that is a travel time of 1:15 from Saratoga. Operationally, the best thing to do would be to make it a state-supported Amtrak route, like Colorado did with the Winter Park Express. It could run from Albany via Schenectady and Saratoga, and then go to North Creek. Ideally, a transfer gondola would take people to the ski bowl base. Is it an expensive operation to set up? Yes. But given the increasingly common access road backups and parking headaches, maybe it's time to give people another option. I live in Saratoga, so I'd certainly consider using it if it were available, and the schedule allowed me to ski open to close.
Ripitz
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- Joined
- Dec 23, 2020
Thank you for your insight, it is much appreciated. Maybe we should start a Sno Train thread.
I remember the Sunday River Ski Train, AKA the Silver Bullet Express, back in the early 90’s. I was tramping around the North Shore of Boston and southern NH during that time and wish I had taken the opportunity to ride it. I believe that was the last dedicated ski train in the East. My understanding is that the tracks have been torn out and it is now a multi-use trail.
I’ve looked at the Adirondack Express to try to connect to Lake Placid. It was shut down for a while during Covid and then there was some track repair north of Albany. It is now back with daily service to Westport but the shuttle from there is no longer running. Would love to see this service reinstated and promoted to get people up there from the Big Apple.
It is possible to take Metro North or Amtrak to Poughkeepsie and then bus to Belleayre. Ulster County runs a free shuttle to Kingston and then another called the Z route that runs along 28 to Pine Hill with a stop at Belleayre by request. As of right now that route is only Mon-Sat. Once ski season starts there is another route that is usually added called the Belleayre Express that runs on Sundays.
Aside from the Ethan Allen Express, the only other train to ski area option that I’m aware of is the Harlem Valley Line to Thunder Ridge. I’ve heard of a shuttle from the station in Patterson but have yet to see this in action to confirm.
Would love to hear some other connections that can be made that you now of. I’m down for a ski train adventure.
x10003q
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- Jul 21, 2020
Yeah, I mistakenly used the current total time to Burlington.
I just looked at a 2010 Amtrak Ethan Allen schedule and the 2 trains for NY Penn to Rutland on Friday were 3:15p-9:05p and 5:40p-11:30p, a claimed travel time of 5:50. So about 1.5hours less than I said. Still not a realistic trip for a family.
I just looked at a 2010 Amtrak Ethan Allen schedule and the 2 trains for NY Penn to Rutland on Friday were 3:15p-9:05p and 5:40p-11:30p, a claimed travel time of 5:50. So about 1.5hours less than I said. Still not a realistic trip for a family.
