ICE v Electric: Cost and Emissions

[tirolski]

It is the only way for most farmers to make a steady living in VT.

Gettin busy with steady livin,

 

[Tjf1967]

TJ - I have been spending time looking into this.

Our house uses just about the average electrical consumption. AFTER REBATES, the break even point is 10-15 years for Tesla Solar panels (which they claim are the most cost effective - I don't know if that is true). Tesla's solar roof product has a longer pay back (more like 20 years) but if you need a roof, it gives you a new roof and a solar generation. Some rebates apply at the point of sale, but most of state and federal are paid back to you when you get your tax return. So like April to October after filing year. But I agree, if one pursues, it is not a pure economic decision because you can put that money to much more productive uses.

Also, the shape and direction of your roof has a big impact. I can only get to 80% offset from panels and 54% from solar roof. If my roof was ideal, I probably could get to 100%.

As you note, if you think about the fact that this is a payback to 0, it is not an economic investment (putting that money into an market index fund would double it in 10 years at 7 pc as you know).

One small modification to your point - my local utility has a program where if you have batteries and they have a high demand event, you allow them to drain your batteries to feed the grid. When this happens, they pay quite a high rate. I did the math, they had three events last year, which totaled about $450. For my low usage months, that is more than a month. I'd have to check the math, but that is probably more than 20% of my annual cost. When I spoke to them, it sounded like it was a fairly new program. I am LI PSEG.

Also, anyone looking into this should realize you will not get your utility bill to 0. On average, mine is about 205. Even if I were 100% offset, there are still like $25 in regulatory fees for the privilege of being connected to the grid.

Hopefully this is helpful. FYI, google has a lot of info on state, federal, and utility rebates.

And people should know that battery rebates bring the cost of a tesla powerall to about the level of a gas or diesel generator.

You're spot on with what your saying. But you will need a heck of a lot more storage too take care of your energy needs. Why install it only to cover your lights? You want something to grow into. When you get into two possibly three power walls the bill just keeps going up. I have room for 47 panels. I looked into the tesla roof. By the time that thing is available and efficient I'll be collecting social security. I put a new roof in last summer. This summer I'm putting up panels and powerwall. I am going to have to gc it myself. I had one outfit over. 83k before rebates. I need to be cost to 50 to make it happen.

 

[Ripitz]

Going all in. This year will tell how it compares to the gasser.

 

[tirolski]

Is this solar powered stuff gonna be like the other tech stuff where the folks with it first pay more to be first then the price drops as masses come on line? Works for big TVs, phones, computers, GPS thingies, generic meds ...

 

[Campgottagopee]

Is this solar powered stuff gonna be like the other tech stuff where the folks with it first pay more to be first then the price drops as masses come on line? Works for big TVs, phones, computers, GPS thingies, generic meds ...

I would think so.

 

[Campgottagopee]

Going all in. This year will tell how it compares to the gasser.View attachment 8593View attachment 8594

That thing is sweet!

 

[DomB]

That thing is sweet!

Awesome. I have a Worx electric mower for my tiny yard. It is way less mower than your beast for my suburban yard. I found it performed well, but in the summer on hot days, I got half the range, where I had to switch out the two 20 v batteries. My entire mower weighs like 25 lbs.

I really like my electric leaf blower. I have an electric hedge trimmer that is fine. The cost of all the stuff was less than one season of paying a landscaper, so I am good with it. Way less noise.

Rip, maybe you can convert Camp!

 

[DomB]

You're spot on with what your saying. But you will need a heck of a lot more storage too take care of your energy needs. Why install it only to cover your lights? You want something to grow into. When you get into two possibly three power walls the bill just keeps going up. I have room for 47 panels. I looked into the tesla roof. By the time that thing is available and efficient I'll be collecting social security. I put a new roof in last summer. This summer I'm putting up panels and powerwall. I am going to have to gc it myself. I had one outfit over. 83k before rebates. I need to be cost to 50 to make it happen.

Thanks, T. my notes above reflect a two powerwall design. For panels, it was like 3 days backup with an air conditioner, and solar roof like 1.5 days.

I 100% agree with the point of needing a system to grow into. My issue is that if I get the Rivian, my electric demand could go from 11250 kw/h to like 15,000 kw/h based upon the range of the vehicle and assumption of 12,000 miles driving. As you can see I am stoked about the product, but I am starting to get frustrated that it is supposed to get this close to production and they are not releasing any significant details (they haven't even released EPA ranges). Still support the company, but questioning if I should get it now.

Still electric is about half the price of gas, but then an 80% system would only cover like 50-60; and 54 % would only cover like 33% . . . . So I have some thinking to do. Texas was a bit of a commercial for independence, so there's that. On the other hand, I live in area where electric gets up quickly when it goes out because I am very close to a major (electric) train hub. Some places on LI still have diesel trains.

There is a relatively new rebate in NY that brings the price of a powerwall down to 6,250, which I think is like 1,000 more than a generator.

The federal Green Act, if passed, will add a new federal 30% rebate for storage (right now fed rebate is only for solar systems). That will be interesting, because at that point, a battery 'generator' will be less than a gas or natural gas one of comprable juice.

FWIW, it looks like Tesla may have dropped solar prices in October 2020.

 

[Campgottagopee]

Rip, maybe you can convert Camp!

LMAO!!

I doubt it simply because I already have a barn full of my already needed "stuff" to maintain my property, all gas. I do need a new leaf blower (don't use it for leaves, rather blowing off my deck) and I will def be looking at a battery powered one. Does that count?

 

[DomB]

You're spot on with what your saying. But you will need a heck of a lot more storage too take care of your energy needs. Why install it only to cover your lights? You want something to grow into. When you get into two possibly three power walls the bill just keeps going up. I have room for 47 panels. I looked into the tesla roof. By the time that thing is available and efficient I'll be collecting social security. I put a new roof in last summer. This summer I'm putting up panels and powerwall. I am going to have to gc it myself. I had one outfit over. 83k before rebates. I need to be cost to 50 to make it happen.

The other thing I would add regarding cost - for the $100 deposit with Tesla, they will give you a fully speced recommended design. I looked at it as a design fee.

If you plug in your bill amount and your address, they will give you a rough rule of thumb for your house and break down all the credits. That part doesn't cost anything but is maybe 80% accurate. That is where wierd roof angles (like my house) will throw it off. May be worth your time given the price differences you are getting.