Harvey
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- Jul 15, 2020
Interesting. Explain?
Detachable vs Fixed Grip Lifts
- Thread starter Harvey
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SayvilleSteve
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- Aug 7, 2020
MarzNC
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- Jul 18, 2020
Don't really know about Timberline slopes on weekends. Being retired, I only go there midweek. There is only one long green and one easier blue from the top, so a weekend morning when lost of the families are around could be a bit on the busy side on the trails. The old fixed grip double (really old) took 12 minutes if you were lucky. New ride takes about 4 minutes once loaded. Based on my experience with fixed-grip quads of about the same length, I would guess the ride would've been 7-8 minutes. Fair to say that the lift line moves a LOT faster with 6 seats and fewer people having trouble loading since it's a detachable. The new owners have been very successful with Perfect North for decades. They spent several years deciding whether or not to buy Timberline as the previous owner messed up royally. Understanding that spending money up front was necessary for long term success was one of their strengths.
I have thoroughly enjoyed skiing Jiminy Peak and Wachusett midweek because of the HSQ lifts. Also makes Waterville Valley more fun midweek. Wachusett is even more unusual since there are three HSQ, including one that only serves two long green trails. Really nice for beginners to be able to have a separate lift where they can spend more time on snow than riding the lift.
My point is simply that no generalization works when it comes to choosing the best mix of lifts. Magic carpets, fixed-grip lifts with or without conveyor loading, HSQ, and fancy detachables with 6 or 8 seats all have value depending on the situation.
MarzNC
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- Jul 18, 2020
In certain situations, my understanding is that having a detachable is helpful when there is strong wind to deal with. Being able to easily put away the chairs in a "barn" when icing is likely has value too.
Note that when the Supreme triple at Alta was replaced with an HSQ, the set up for chair spacing and timing was designed to not increase capacity. That lift serves a fair amount of intermediate trails, in addition to advanced/expert terrain. The old triple stopped a noticeable amount of time because an intermediate had trouble loading. Conveyor loading helped a bit. With detachable chairs, rarely stops due to loading issues because of lack of experience.
MarzNC
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- Jul 18, 2020
I thought it was interesting that Telluride had a poma lift as a connector given how many fast lifts they have. That lift served beginner terrain so it was so slow and on such a minor pitch that a boarder who was having trouble staying on could walk up faster than we were going on the poma.
Waterville Valley opted to save a lot of money by moving an old fixed-grip to serve Green Mountain instead of going with a HSQ. I gather there is rarely a line even on weekends. A nice section of "old school" that was actually a recent addition.
raisingarizona
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- Aug 4, 2020
And working all week so you can enjoy a day of skiing on your weekend.
I say something like this when the xc mtbers tell me to earn my downhills instead of doing shuttles. It's like dude......I worked hard all week to do this, why make it harder?
Harvey
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- Jul 15, 2020
Still trying to get at the owners motivation. It's a sincere question.
At Gore, the two HS chairs out of the base make total sense when the mountain is really open. Half the people who ride to the up on the quad or gondi won't come back down, so it helps to quickly spread people out and diminish lines. I'm sure that Gore does more skier visits on that kind of a busy day, with those lifts in play.
But I'm looking to understand the primary motivation of a private business (where expenses hit the owners). I don't think it's the icing.
What the cost a of new Leitner Poma 4 now? Have they been hit with the same inflation we are seeing for cars and everything else?
MarzNC
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- Jul 18, 2020
In some cases, there is another factor for 4-season resorts that has nothing to do with the ski season. It's a lot easier to load tourists onto a detachable lift during the green season. With the price of those tickets, I assume it's not that hard to make money even if only running the lift 2-3 days a week. While running a fixed-grip lift slow enough for safe walk-on loading and unloading can make for a nice ride, it can also be too long. My husband enjoyed the ride up the Jiminy Peak 6-pack when we stopped by one fall after visiting our daughter at her prep school in Boston, but he was still quite ready to get to the top.
One advantage of a chondola over a chairlift is that during the summer people who don't want to ride on an open chair may be willing to ride in a gondola. I got my friend's husband to ride the Whiteface gondola during a fall trip. He's so scared of heights, there is no way he would even get on a chairlift.
raisingarizona
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- Aug 4, 2020
I'm sure this is why Coleman went with the Chondola for Snowbowl. Before the upgrades and the explosion of skier visits I was told that the summer sky ride was their reliable income source.
HS chairs are awesome for young children, families and beginners. Maybe not the six seaters so much. I've been taken out by beginner snowboarders by them running my skis over as they try not to fall themselves while getting off that lift.
HS chairs are also awesome for those of us that live close to our home mountain. Many of us don't ski the weekends and opt for half day or a couple of hour sessions mid-week and a HS lift gives us an opportunity to get a bunch of vertical in a short window. For a lot of us it's the only way we can ski. I get it, if you're primarily a weekend skier you're probably skiing full days and your overall vertical per hour may not seem as much of a factor.
Powder preservation? What difference does it make? You'll get the same amount of powder turns in regardless, just maybe instead of 5 hours you get that same amount in 2. Then you can spend the rest of your day working on your bump technique in soft moguls.
