Transparency in Snow Reporting

[Alfredeneumann]

The most brutally honest snow report I’ve ever read, for yesterday from Mad River Glen:

“Following the best week of holiday skiing in recent memory we’re sad to report that this stretch of packed powder is coming to an end. Yesterday we arose to cloudy skies which quickly gave way to the sun and above freezing temperatures. The forecast for today will follow much of the same patterns with highs landing in the upper 40s with mostly sunny to clear skies. We’re not sure what the future will hold for us but we can assure you that we’ll be skiing the main mountain as long as it is safe to do so. Coverage is holding up well for now but with each hour and pair of skis that passes by the snowpack gets thinner and thinner. Eventually, the snow that has remained dry and sheltered will start to suffer as a result of sustained warm weather. Opportunities to ski what remains of our packed powder paradise will be shrinking by the minute. As a result of temperatures staying above freezing overnight, we’ve been forced to pair back our grooming operations. Skiers will find that our machines have made passes to the top of each lift and the higher traffic areas have been covered as well but warmer snow and thinning depths are starting to take its toll. Skiers should be prepared for the potential for conditions to change rapidly throughout the day.
As the first patrollers have been making their way up the mountain today we’ve begun to limit our open terrain. Conditions are rapidly changing and in turn our open trail count will be fluid as well. Keeping tabs on our conditions page will give you the most up to date picture of snow conditions and open trail counts. Ski patrol will certainly be busy keeping an eye on all of our open terrain as they monitor changes in snow conditions, snow depth and the appearance of new trail hazards. For those who are planning on coming up to the mountain today, expect some pockets of drier snow, heavier wetter snow, some more wind-buffed areas, areas of thick ice and the typical early season rocks and moss. Please keep the framework of our early season conditions in mind while making decisions on the mountain.”
Maybe Gore should have someone besides the marketing department write the snow report.

 

[Harvey]

Maybe Gore should have someone besides the marketing department write the snow report.

Almost every mountain considers snow reporting part of marketing.

Comparing Mad's snow reporting to any other mountain makes no sense. Say what you will about Gore or any mountain, but no one has the economics that Mad does. If a whole season went by and they didn't open, it would hardly matter. A great position to be in for sure, but not a fair comparison with other mountains.

FWIW I from what I have seen, Julia, the new Gore marketing person, is doing a good job.

 

[DomB]

Almost every mountain considers snow reporting part of marketing.

Comparing Mad's snow reporting to any other mountain makes no sense. Say what you will about Gore or any mountain, but no one has the economics that Mad does. If a whole season went by and they didn't open, it would hardly matter. A great position to be in for sure, but not a fair comparison with other mountains.

FWIW I from what I have seen, Julia, the new Gore marketing person, is doing a good job.

I love Gore (just said it) but I have noticed the past few seasons they are becoming more 'aspirational'. I hope they don't become too aspirational. I don't disagree with you often, but as many note here, ORDA does not follow logical economic models (and in fact part of their stated governing Mission Statement is to maximize employment, which is not 100% consistent with maximum economic efficiency - something I am totally fine with). But if that is so, I prefer more accurate snow reports.

I do appreciate they put a big fat green blurb on the conditions report which I can even read as them saying they may not open the top.

 

[Harvey]

I love Gore (just said it) but I have noticed the past few seasons they are becoming more 'aspirational'. I hope they don't become too aspirational. I don't disagree with you often, but as many note here, ORDA does not follow logical economic models (and in fact part of their stated governing Mission Statement is to maximize employment, which is not 100% consistent with maximum economic efficiency - something I am totally fine with). But if that is so, I prefer more accurate snow reports.

This is precisely why I said:

"Say what you will about Gore or any mountain, but no one has the economics that Mad does."

Clearly Gore is in a different situation than a private operation. But the fact remains that there is pressure within ORDA to hit numbers, even if the consequences of not doing so aren't the same as they are at West Mountain or Plattekill.

If there are 500 ski areas in the US, how many of those report the way Mad does? If there are others who are they?

What is your theory on why Mad is unique in this way? Mad has made this part of their brand, because it is allowable within that "culture."

You can call it altruism, or a fanatical dedication to the truth. But I suspect there are more hard economic (or political) realities lurking beneath.

FWIW, as someone who tracks it closely, with a place near base elevation nearby, I find Gore's snowfall totals to be quite honest.

 

[Ripitz]

If there are 500 ski areas in the US, how many of those report the way Mad does? If there are others who are they?

Magic.

 

[Harvey]

Magic.

I have my theory about why that is. What is yours?

 

[not2brite]

I find it ironic that within the same organization Belleayre’s condition report is incredibly accurate. Skied 17 days there so far this year and the only inconsistency was a 2-3 day stretch that showed upper Winisook to be groomed. Last year they left it mostly untouched which is the reason I even checked since I found it surprising.

 

[x10003q]

I love Gore (just said it) but I have noticed the past few seasons they are becoming more 'aspirational'. I hope they don't become too aspirational. I don't disagree with you often, but as many note here, ORDA does not follow logical economic models (and in fact part of their stated governing Mission Statement is to maximize employment, which is not 100% consistent with maximum economic efficiency - something I am totally fine with). But if that is so, I prefer more accurate snow reports.

I do appreciate they put a big fat green blurb on the conditions report which I can even read as them saying they may not open the top.

Don't worry about that ORDA Mission Statement - it is just words on paper. It has no meaning.

 

[Ripitz]

I have my theory about why that is. What is yours?

I don’t really have a theory. I would like to hear yours though. Maybe relying on natural snow makes it necessary for more honesty. I like Geoff’s progress reports. They are way more proactive in getting the info out there. Jon Schaefer, of Berkshire East and Catamount, made a statement last year which was refreshing but it was more of an apology as it was after the fact.

To be honest I don’t check the trail reports. I have fun no matter what the conditions are. Just glad to be out there when I can.

 

[Harvey]

I don't check trail reports either. I look at the weather in advance, decide whether or not I am going to make the drive, and then ski. I do follow conditions threads here in the forum, thank you to all who post.

Magic is a bit like Mad in one way. Their continued survival has relied on the dedicated fanaticism of their skier/fan base. People who ski there, in part, because they really believe in the place, and want it to survive.

The Magic skiers I know have their social circle centered there too. On any given day, many of them would choose their regular routine, with their ski family, over better conditions at Stratton or Killington.

I have no data, so this next thing is a guess, curious to know what others think. A greater percentage of Magic's skier visits are from people who are skiing Magic no matter what. It's my sense that Geoff runs the messaging at Magic, and likely has a beer with his customers (friends) on Saturday after close. He's facing them directly, regularly. He also reports to himself (and his partners).

Other hills like Gore or Hunter are still relying on more casual skiers who are making decisions based on what they see on social media. And they report to more corporate structures above. The pandemic changed this to some extent (more passholders at Gore and everywhere now), but the behavior is ingrained to some extent.

In the long run I think the transparency is the way to go, but I think all of us who face economic reality (99% of us) have, at times, chosen the short run over the long run, because we felt we had no other choice.