The Problem with the Wasatch

[Harvey]

I've been trying to better understand the issues with the Wasatch. Maybe you can help me.

Roughly I get it. There is great skiing up there and usually lots of snow, especially in the LCC. Of course there is a lot of demand for powder. It seems many have moved out there specifically to get at that powder.

The area is mountainous and there is only one way up there from SLC. So traffic can be a nightmare when there is a big snowfall.

Options have been proposed for mass transit, trains and gondolas (?) to solve the problem. Is that it? How far does the traffic backup? How far would a gondola run?

There's a lot of stress around the issue(s) and I'd like to understand it better. If you have insight on the nuance, please share.

I'd never really looked at the map until now. The LCC is a lot closer to town than I imagined. Apparently there is no backup at the moment.

 

[raisingarizona]

The beer is weak in Utah and they’ll never legalize marijuana.

I haven’t skied there in 10 years so I don’t know about current traffic problems but its kind of crazy up there.

I think the ONE is a good way to go. The Wasatch is the best place in this country to create a Euro type ski connection and with the amount of traffic in those hills you might as well.

In Europe they’d totally develop all of these proposals. Gondolas, trains connection etc. would already have been done.

 

[tirolski]

In Europe they’d totally develop all of these proposals. Gondolas, trains connection etc. would already have been done.

When I spent time around Milan it was amazing to see how much different the cultures lived.
They shut most Milan's streets down on Sundays.
The trains were nice, fast, clean and easy.
Still remember "due biglietti” ... “grazie” and was on the way.
Driving a car around there was more than crazy.

 

[Campgottagopee]

The beer is weak in Utah and they’ll never legalize marijuana.

I stopped reading after this

 

[MarzNC]

I'd never really looked at the map until now. The LCC is a lot closer to town than I imagined. Apparently there is no backup at the moment.

What do you mean by "no backup?"

The choice for LCC or BCC is to drive, take the UTA bus, or stay in the canyon at fairly high prices. Ikon and the season passes include bus access. What's relatively new is that paid parking is a factor to consider when driving, depending on the resort. That was not a function of the pandemic. Staying in SLC can be done relatively inexpensively with a little planning. Even possible to avoid renting a car if flying to SLC.

The train idea was never going to get anywhere. There were tracks ages ago when Alta was a mining town.

There are two plans that made it to the final cut: 1) gondola from near the base of the canyon that would be next to parking, or 2) enhanced bus service with a slightly wider road in places. Friends of Alta, a non-profit that works to protect the LCC environment for the long run, is against the gondola. Fair to say that the gondola would be a lot more expensive.

Not only is there only a 2-lane road up LCC or BCC, there is very little land once you get to the end of the canyon that can be developed for more parking than currently exists. Makes the parking at Whiteface feel extensive in comparison. There was/is also little land for private development for lodging, so that's why there are only beds for a small percentage of the lift capacity for a powder day.

The traffic issue isn't just during the ski season. There have been increasing issues during the summer. During the summer, four of the five independent lodges at Alta are closed except for special events like weddings or small conferences. Snowbird and Solitude started pushing summer activities after 2014 when it became possible to build stuff like an alpine slides on Forest Service land. Lots of people like to go hiking in the canyons. There is also rock climbing and mountain biking.

 

[MarzNC]

The reason Park City, Canyons, and Deer Valley eventually were developed for skiing was that there was far more land available for private development in Parley's Canyon. The elevation is lower and the snowfall pattern means much more dependence on snowmaking from early on. Park City developed a good public bus system that makes it easy to get around without a car.

My ski buddy's friend who retired to Park City takes the bus for skiing. She and her husband are retired professors. Park City was affordable, plus one of their kids turned out to be a snowboarder. So although they love skiing Alta, living in Park City made more sense than SLC. The day she met me and a few friends for a tour of Deer Valley, she rode the bus from her condo in her ski boots.

The UTA Ski Bus for LCC/BCC is managed by SLC. It hasn't been a high priority to have enough buses and related parking to make it practical to depend on the bus. If a bus line only runs every 20 minutes and is likely to be full on a busy day, then people won't want to depend on taking the bus. It's not like NYC where you just wait at a bus stop for the next available bus and don't need to know how the schedule is set up.

 

[Harvey]

I can see why the problem is unsolved.

Even if you can pay for a big expensive infrastructure to get a ton of people there (road widening, gondola, monorail!) they have no where to land. What's holding up the LCC bus?

It kind of makes me glad I'm not addicted to Alta.

 

[raisingarizona]

I can see why the problem is unsolved.

Even if you can pay for a big expensive infrastructure to get a ton of people there (road widening, gondola, monorail!) they have no where to land. What's holding up the LCC bus?

It kind of makes me glad I'm not addicted to Alta.

Alta is great if you enjoy young men with bad attitudes (aka the altitude) and radical tricep workouts.

I'll take Snowbird over Alta every single time.

 

[MarzNC]

Alta is great if you enjoy young men with bad attitudes (aka the altitude) and radical tricep workouts.

I'll take Snowbird over Alta every single time.

That's assuming the only terrain you want to ski is considered "extreme" by some folks. Personally I much prefer Alta over Snowbird. That's true whether or not I'm staying at Alta Lodge or in SLC.

Alta is great for all levels, from 6yo beginners during the first season to seniors over 70 who still ski off-piste whenever possible. My friends who are intermediates who learned as adults love Alta. And yes, they have been to Snowbird too. Having footrests on the lifts at Snowbird is nice. But not having to watch out for snowboarders sitting in the middle of a trail is nice too.

 

[MarzNC]

Even if you can pay for a big expensive infrastructure to get a ton of people there (road widening, gondola, monorail!) they have no where to land. What's holding up the LCC bus?

SLC is a big city with a population of 200,000 1,200,000. The percentage of the population who ski isn't really that big. While there is public transportation, it's not anything like what's available in NYC or Boston, or even Washington DC. My guess is that the percentage of locals who take the bus or light rail for any reason is not that high. SLC doesn't really have gridlock like some other large cities.

Alta is geared to having a few thousand skiers per day. Snowbird may be able to handle more people than Alta when Mineral Basin is open. The number of parking spaces is in the hundreds, not thousands.

The destination resorts in the Rockies that have good public transportation are mostly in Colorado. The Aspen/Snowmass bus system is free and runs early and late. Telluride's free gondola makes a huge difference on making it easy to stay on the mountain and enjoy the town for dinner or stay in town and head up for skiing without any need of a car.