The Indy Pass

[Brownski]

Impressive that none of the partner ski areas are bailing. I suspect that Laz still doesn't feel that the Indy Pass math works for Platte?

He’s following his own program. It seems to be working. There was bus-full after bus-full of NYC beginners arriving every weekend this year

 

[Harvey]

I don't want to take the time to look this up, but how do these passes work? How much $ does a ski area get when a Indy Pass holder shows up.

This is the way I understand it.

Indy sells a bunch of passes. They keep a % of that total, might be 15. The rest of the money is divided up paid to the resorts based on how many Indy Pass redemptions they get. So the "yield" - revenue per skier day for each ski area - is not determined in advance. The whole system is based on an estimate of how many days on average each passholder redeems. (Those estimates have proven to be pretty accurate.) If every skier went to every ski area on the pass and skied 2 days, it would never work.

 

[MarzNC]

I don't want to take the time to look this up, but how do these passes work? How much $ does a ski area get when a Indy Pass holder shows up.

The general idea is that 85% of the money collected is distributed to the ski areas/resorts on Indy based on the number of redemptions each location has by the end of a particular season. The reason the price went up a bit in 2021-22 was to make the pot big enough that it was enough for larger resorts like Powder Mountain to be interested.

When Waterville Valley joined mid-season, it ended up with the most redemptions in New England. Maybe even out of all locations.

The comparison Doug Fish notes in interviews is that reciprocal agreements may be hard to hold together in the long run. For instance the Freedom Pass is uneven. That means the larger ski areas are more likely to have to give a few free days to season pass holders from smaller ski areas. The perk is 3 free days at all the members. Plattekill dropped out.

However, the Freedom Pass is apparently going to return for 2022-23 with new Partners according to the website. It was created around 2014.

Nov 2020

Freedom Pass Returns with 10 Partner Ski Areas

The Storm Skiing Journal apologizes for being fake news

www.stormskiing.com

 

[MarzNC]

Indy sells a bunch of passes. They keep a % of that total, might be 15. The rest of the money is divided up paid to the resorts based on how many Indy Pass redemptions they get. So the "yield" - revenue per skier day for each ski area - is not determined in advance. The whole system is based on an estimate of how many days on average each passholder redeems. (Those estimates have proven to be pretty accurate.) If every skier went to every ski area on the pass and skied 2 days, it would never work.

The initial target market for Indy were people who didn't ski more than 4-5 days a season, usually restricted to weekends, because of other aspects of their busy lives work, other activities of their children, etc. For a family with a kid or two, using Indy to get in a few ski days by doing a little planning and a few hours of driving, it can be more fun than just going to the local bump. Potentially less money too if the family can only ski on weekends.

I've used Indy to explore places in "tourist mode" that I probably wouldn't bother with given that I live in NC. I hadn't made the 5 hour trek to Cataloochee in western NC since it's smaller than my home hill and the drive is an hour longer from my house. Also never checked out Canaan Valley in WV or Bryce in VA, which are day trip distance from Massanutten.

My friend from central PA went to Mohawk because one of her adult children moved near there. It's a tiny hill and they had no idea what to expect. Turned out that even the young man who is a former racer had a good time. His mother used Indy for a day at Mohawk, plus did two days at Berkshire East, a day at West Mountain, and a half day at Canaan Valley. She joined me for two separate driving ski trips based on Indy. She only recently had the time and interest to go exploring. Indy is a perfect fit. Her family never realized how much fun a small well-run mountain can be.

When using Indy, I spend money either at the ski area for food or at other places nearby before/after skiing. I had a good time with my friend this season. The ski areas where I went and local economy gained some revenue even when snow conditions weren't that great. Win-win-win in my way of thinking.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Indy sells a bunch of passes. They keep a % of that total, might be 15. The rest of the money is divided up paid to the resorts based on how many Indy Pass redemptions they get

So the resorts hope that Indy skiers purchase a lot of F&B and/or stay in on-mountain lodging if that exists?

the Freedom Pass is apparently going to return for 2022-23 with new Partners according to the website. It was created around 2014.

Here's a recent TR from a very under-the-radar Utah ski area that's on both the Freedom Pass and Indy Pass. I guess it doesn't harm the resort to be on both passes?

 

[Harvey]

No, yes, maybe. Every mountain wants every customer to buy F&B and/or lodging. Maybe if you are stringing together a trip with multiple indies you are more likely to buy lodging.

More like, the resorts hope that they get a lot of redemptions and no one else does!

 

[Campgottagopee]

Thanks for explaining that
Seems complicated, yet simple at the same time.

 

[Brownski]

I think it’s more of a “I’d rather get the $30 and expose my hill to a new skier than get $0 and never pop up on this guys radar” (or whatever the redemption is) rather than a loss leader to boost F&B.

 

[Harvey]

I think it’s more of a “I’d rather get the $30 and expose my hill to a new skier than get $0 and never pop up on this guys radar” (or whatever the redemption is) rather than a loss leader to boost F&B.

I think this is correct, but I'm pretty sure the number is higher than $30.

The question comes down to total revenue vs yield. IF you have available capacity, do you want to increase revenue and lower yield?

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I’d rather get the $30 and expose my hill to a new skier than get $0 and never pop up on this guys radar

Right. I imagine that a ski area residing permanently on the "best-kept secret" list is not a recipe for sustainability.