Snow Gun Waste

Scott McManus · Dec 14, 2022

I admit to be %100 a novice when it comes to the fine art of snow making. However it often looks to me like a large portion of the snow generated blows up and into the tree's between the trails. Is this an accurate observation? Was just viewing the webcam on Bear mountain and viewing snow operations up on cloud. It looks like so much snow is traveling far beyond Cloud and into the trees between Lies and the chair.

rebel1916 · Dec 15, 2022

I think of it as seeding the part of the ski area I actually care about

D.B. Cooper · Dec 16, 2022

You are probably observing some combination of wind, lack of training, absence of caring and/or disgruntlement of employee(s).

tirolski · Dec 16, 2022

Scott McManus said:
I admit to be %100 a novice when it comes to the fine art of snow making. However it often looks to me like a large portion of the snow generated blows up and into the tree's between the trails. Is this an accurate observation? Was just viewing the webcam on Bear mountain and viewing snow operations up on cloud. It looks like so much snow is traveling far beyond Cloud and into the trees between Lies and the chair.

Looking at it from a long distanced webcam (bear mountain’s) it’s most likely observational bias and some wind, as it’s looking at the dang tippy top, just sating.
What was most likely “seen” was kinda like the stuff ya exhale when it’s cold out.
Folks at Gore know how to make snow, where to put it down and then spread it out.
Shit happens sometimes too as there’s a lot of energy going intoit.

jimmypete · Dec 18, 2022

I always wonder about the current economics of snowmaking, I know it used to be quite expensive but have read that it has become much more efficient in the last decade.

tirolski · Dec 18, 2022

jimmypete said:
I always wonder about the current economics of snowmaking, I know it used to be quite expensive but have read that it has become much more efficient in the last decade.

They discuss some stuff here.

Chartbook #180: Do you ski? The political economy of snow, slopes and skiing

The ski business worldwide.

adamtooze.substack.com

Thought about dropping it in the F Vail thread but it appears to be more than just that there.

Harvey · Dec 19, 2022

I think snowmaking is still very expensive. I wouldn't be surprised if efficiency improvements are offset by an increased need.

Twelve years ago I asked these questions of Mike Pratt, when he was GM at Gore. We skied together one day, and had a sublime poach of Twister, under the guns. This is what he taught me:

• There is always an ideal trajectory for each gun so you'll get the most snow on the trail.

• There are a few variables.

• If no one is skiing the trail and it's not a liftline you only have to account for wind direction/speed and temperature. Wind direction and speed can change, and if there isn't a snowmaker available to monitor and make changes you're going to waste some snow.

• You don't want to blow at a lift. If there are people on it, or not.

• If people are skiing the trail you have to take that into account too. Generally it's much more efficient to blow on a closed trail.

• Putting a fan gun in the middle of the trail and blowing down the trail, parallel to the flow of skiing generally wastes very little, but you can't do it if people are skiing.

• If you aim high, the snow is more spread out (requires less cat work to spread it) and the water has more hang time to freeze in marginal temps. But you can also lose more into the woods.

Right now when labor is so tight, I wouldn't be surprised to see guns blowing gak, or blowing snow into the woods.