Plattekill Conditions

[Low Angle Life]

It is great to see Plattekill have great success, especially after all the whining about the $74 million NYS never spent (as I predicted) connecting Belleayre to Highmount and adding 2 lifts. FYI - the expansion was finally approved in Dec, 2015, 16 YEARS after the first permit applications. It is now 22 years since permiting started with no sign of a connection. Highmount closed in 1992, right around when Laz bought Plattekill. Laz's grandkids will be running Platty before NYS ever expands Belleayre.

NYS will continue to make investments at Belle, this weekends crowds are a major justification for it, but really why would you invest in a pricey expansion if it also meant having to increase snow making capacity and lift access? Money is better spent continuing to make improvements to the core area before moving out to additional terrain like Highmount. It is a big enough mountain as is to spread the crowds out.

With the lack of snow and my Belle pass, I haven't make it to Platte once this season, I wish that weren't the case but I don't feel I've missed much, honestly I feel I've gotten the better deal. Plattekill needs to expand their snow making if they want to keep up, but I also understand that would also likely mean additional MTN Ops staff. I WOULD choose Plattekill over Belle if they had a similar percentage of terrain open during the low tide times but a season like the one we just had really shows that snow making firepower is THE MOST important investment moving forward, aside from good people that is. I think it also backs Harvey's point that powder hounds are far from essential for running a profitable operation.

Skiing also seems to be at capacity everywhere, there are enough butts for every chair, particularly when talking about that Cats.

 

[Harvey]

Skiing also seems to be at capacity everywhere, there are enough butts for every chair, particularly when talking about that Cats.

Or beyond.

Laz has added more snowmaking every year he has turned a profit.

This year the cost of steel pipe is up 3x vs the recent past, so that may have an impact.

Personally I'm ok with the speed he is moving, and I will cry when Ridge and Freehall get manmade.

I was lobbying hard yesterday afternoon! But when it comes to that kind of stuff, Laz is going to do what Laz is going to do.

On a related note, I met Winchcat Collin and told him to keep that damn thing out of the bumps on Plunge!

 

[TheGreatAbyss]

Powderhounds are nice and all, but not essential to Plattekill's business.

Ultimately as a business you charge as much as you can to maximize your profit based on demand, and if people are willing to buy the season pass despite the limited days open, and inferior snow making compared to Belle then there's little reason to change the offering. I'll be buying another season pass next season but to be honest I probably only came out breaking even vs. buying day tickets. Like Low Angle I mostly skied Belle early season when all Platty had open was Powder Puff.

One of the few things I agree with Vail Resorts on is that the future of skiing is in season passes. It forces skiers to commit to the season through the good and the bad. I'm not sure what Platty's revenue breakdown is between day tickets and season passes, but for long term sustainability in the ski business lower consistent reliable revenue > spike demand just when it snows.

 

[Harvey]

The definition of "breaking even" is really at the root of this entire discussion.

Did the guy who spent the entire morning in line with his family count that day in his pass math / break even calculation?

If you have just as much fun at Belle (or where ever) and it's cheaper per day, go for it. I took six runs yesterday before anyone was even in line and I got more untracked the day after the storm than I did the whole day at Whiteface, skiing in the storm, the day before. I do my math differently than most, I'm guessing.

 

[TheGreatAbyss]

I completely agree with you. And that's why I'll be buying another season pass to Platty, cause when it has snow the experience is amazing. Both on the mountain and in the lodge. But my point still stands that I could have had that same experience walking up to the ticket counter pre buying online for each day and came out the same - and that's dangerous for a mountain's sustainability in increasingly warm winters.

And yes I will still be going to Belle as well. I think the Platty + ORDA is a great NYski combo.

 

[Temp6]

Personally I'm ok with the speed he is moving, and I will cry when Ridge and Freehall get manmade.

That will be the end of an era. I think we are in sort of a transition period for many mountains and what’s obvious is that the powder hound and pure skiing experience is not congruent with the ski industry’s growth as a whole.

It definitely makes me sad but at the end of the day families who serve us all gotta eat too. I can see a niche market opening up for uphill-only mountains that have far less overhead and just rely on natural snowfall. Check out Bluebird Backcountry in colorado as an example. Not sure if there’s any land left in the east for this type of thing to grow but if you want pure, natural, and uncrowded skiing, the modern ski resort is quickly becoming less and less a place to find it.

 

[Harvey]

+1

@Temp6 I wish we'd had a chance to really talk yesterday. I'll do better next time.

I think the Platty + ORDA is a great NYski combo.

Ha, obviously I agree!

 

[MarzNC]

One of the few things I agree with Vail Resorts on is that the future of skiing is in season passes. It forces skiers to commit to the season through the good and the bad. I'm not sure what Platty's revenue breakdown is between day tickets and season passes, but for long term sustainability in the ski business lower consistent reliable revenue > spike demand just when it snows.

I happened to be in the neighborhood and made a point to ski Plattekill on Friday, Feb. 25. Happened to be a powder day. But what impressed me was how many families with kids and beginners were around. Probably because it was the end of a school vacation week for the region. I'm talking about never-ever adult skiers who were renting skis . . . and bringing them into the lodge because they didn't know any better. The magic carpet was busy pretty much all morning, whether it was snowing or not. Presumably those people bought day tickets.

I originally intended to use the voucher from helping with the glade clearing in the fall. But that week was blacked out. That's one week when Plattekill is open every day. Presumably it's a money maker reguardless of whether or not there is fresh snow.

The tubing hill was also busy that Friday. Tubing is a big money maker. One family with two kids arrived an hour early for their tubing session. That's all they were going to do at Plattekill that day.

 

[Ripitz]

I can see a niche market opening up for uphill-only mountains that have far less overhead and just rely on natural snowfall.

Dutch Hill, Prospect and Hogback have been doing that for a while. Greylock has been doing it since 1935.

 

[Jersey Skier]

One of the few things I agree with Vail Resorts on is that the future of skiing is in season passes. It forces skiers to commit to the season through the good and the bad.

Not great for the future of the sport. I see season passes ever drawing in new skiers into the sport.