Plattekill Conditions

[rfreeman]

Yes I have Epic Local passes for 3 (cheaper than Plattekill passes for 3 and good 7 days a week at 45 mountains instead of 3 days a week at 1) so Hunter is paid for. And I consider all those things about Plattkill to be assets as well - which is why I might still have bought day tix there if rates were comparable to past years.

But I do expect prices to be somewhat commensurate to what they are paying to provide the service. And the minimal snowmaking and grooming and lifts that are 30-50 years old and fully depreciated certainly keep their costs way down.

At this price point I expect their business to decline to the point that this could be their final season.

I hope you are right about demand. If Hunter and Windham and Belle can satisfy all of their demand, you could be right. But if Hunter has to turn away even 20%, it could make a big difference to the other three mountains. Plus I have heard dozens of skiers disclose their "secret plan" to ski NY now that they feel VT less accessible.

I don't know what will happen. All I really know that at my age, I don't want to miss out on a season because tickets were expensive. I want to ski and I will pay for the privilege.

I'm assuming by saying Hunter is free, you are really saying you've already paid for it?

Full disclosure, I am that odd skier that considers all those thing to be in the plus column: charm, challenge, unique, slow lifts and more natural conditions. All you have to do is look at skier visit numbers to know I am in a small minority.

 

[marcski]

I'll join you Harv, and raise you one!

 

[marcski]

Yes I have Epic Local passes for 3 (cheaper than Plattekill passes for 3 and good 7 days a week at 45 mountains instead of 3 days a week at 1) so Hunter is paid for. And I consider all those things about Plattkill to be assets as well. But still expect prices to be somewhat commensurate to what they are paying to provide the service. And the minimal snowmaking and grooming and lifts that are 30-50 years old and fully depreciated certainly keep their costs way down.

At this price point I expect their business to decline to the point that this could be their final season.

Every ski area in the country will have their business decline this season. And, I wouldn't hold your breath too long on this being Platty's last season.

 

[Campgottagopee]

At this price point I expect their business to decline to the point that this could be their final season.

Not a chance. I've never skied Platty but I do ski at a small independently owned ski hill in CNY. These guys are smart operators, have good people, and have seen this year coming. They're ready for it, and will weather this just like many other obstacles they face in the ski industry.

 

[MarzNC]

But I do expect prices to be somewhat commensurate to what they are paying to provide the service. And the minimal snowmaking and grooming and lifts that are 30-50 years old and fully depreciated certainly keep their costs way down.

That only applies to a normal season. 2020-21 is anything but normal.

For context, the day ticket price at Crystal in WA is double what it was last season. Crystal is owned by Alterra now. Went from $75 to $149. When someone on another ski forum fussed, I pointed out that when a ski area is limited to 50% capacity but still has to cover fixed costs based on winter revenue, it only makes sense to double the ticket price.

Buying a 1-location season pass is an investment is a local mountain and the people who work there. I've been doing that for Massanutten even for seasons where I was only going to break even when making the drive with a kid in elementary school, which was 6-7 days at VA ticket prices (~$70 on weekends for 70 acres, 1100 ft vertical).

Plattekill is special. As are all "old school" ski areas. On a normal weekend, if I still lived in NYC driving a little farther for the calm vibe of Plattekill would definitely be worth it compared to the three Catskill mountains that I consider "ski resorts" as opposed to "ski areas." While I love the high-speed lift at Jiminy Peak and am quite willing to pay more for a ticket there, I also enjoyed skiing at nearby Berkshire East riding slow fixed-grip lifts for far less. It's apples and oranges to compare a 4-season resort with slopeside lodging like JP to a day trip ski area like BEast.

You know Plattekill is only open Fri-Sun, right?

 

[rfreeman]

That only applies to a normal season. 2020-21 is anything but normal.

For context, the day ticket price at Crystal in WA is double what it was last season. Crystal is owned by Alterra now. Went from $75 to $149. When someone on another ski forum fussed, I pointed out that when a ski area is limited to 50% capacity but still has to cover fixed costs based on winter revenue, it only makes sense to double the ticket price.

Buying a 1-location season pass is an investment is a local mountain and the people who work there. I've been doing that for Massanutten even for seasons where I was only going to break even when making the drive with a kid in elementary school, which was 6-7 days at VA ticket prices (~$70 on weekends for 70 acres, 1100 ft vertical).

Plattekill is special. As are all "old school" ski areas. On a normal weekend, if I still lived in NYC driving a little farther for the calm vibe of Plattekill would definitely be worth it compared to the three Catskill mountains that I consider "ski resorts" as opposed to "ski areas." While I love the high-speed lift at Jiminy Peak and am quite willing to pay more for a ticket there, I also enjoyed skiing at nearby Berkshire East riding slow fixed-grip lifts for far less. It's apples and oranges to compare a 4-season resort with slopeside lodging like JP to a day trip ski area like BEast.

You know Plattekill is only open Fri-Sun, right?

Yes I am aware they are only open 3 days a week. And I agree they are special which is why I would buy a reasonably priced ticket to ski there in the right conditions even when I have a pass to use other places.

Do you really think Plattekill has ever hit 50% of capacity? Certainly not any time I have ever been there.

I am not seeing how "this season" increases their costs significantly or decreases their volume except to the extent higher prices decrease their volume.

 

[JTG]

Agreed. Me thinks it will be a good year for Platty. As a small operation they are probably pretty cost effective (and why would those costs increase in the upcoming fugly season?), and given that they’ve never been super busy (compared to other areas) I bet their traffic will be the same (maybe even increase) this year compared to years past, even with the impact of capacity restrictions. Word had been getting out already (about the snow, terrain, and special nature of the place), now all those NY and NJ people who can’t go to VT have to go somewhere, and places like Huntah will be more affected by capacity limits than places like Platty.

Maybe.

Maybe I should combine a season pass at Platty with an Empire Card at WF....

 

[MarzNC]

I am not seeing how "this season" increases their costs significantly or decreases their volume except to the extent higher prices decrease their volume.

Plexiglass isn't cheap. Probably not too much of it has been added at Plattekill but my sense is that every ski area has had to spend money on adjustments that are only necessary because of the pandemic. I've been listening to the Podcast by SAM where GMs are sharing general info about how they've been preparing for the this season. Has included small ski areas as well as destination resorts.

bet their traffic will be the same (maybe even increase) this year compared to years past, even with the impact of capacity restrictions.

How much does revenue from the grill and bar matter to Plattekill? It would guess that might be down. So not an increased cost, but decreased revenue could be another factor.

In any case, it will become more obvious by early Jan what type of numbers Plattekill is likely to have from ticket sales. Given the scarcity of day tickets in general, I don't think a higher price is going to be much of a deterrent.

 

[MarzNC]

Do you really think Plattekill has ever hit 50% of capacity? Certainly not any time I have ever been there.

Can't answer that question. When I went to check Plattekill out, it was on a Friday during late season when I had another reason to be driving around the northeast. Had a ball, but have never really had another chance to get there. From NC it makes far more sense to fly west than drive north of DC.

 

[JTG]

Good point on the lost foodservice and bar revenue, although probably not as significant at a smaller place like Platty as compared to larger operations.

Maybe.