Campgottagopee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2020
WOW
Lift Throughput: Why it Matters and How to Improve it
- Thread starter snoloco
- Start date
jamesdeluxe
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2020
Camp getting into the spirit of efficiency!
Sbob
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2021
"Guests Unwilling to Pair Up:
-If this is a problem at a particular resort, then signage and directions by staff need to make it clear that the expectation is that guests pair up with others and fill all available seats.
-Refusing to ride with other people when there's a big line is really no different than cutting the line, and should be dealt with accordingly."
This one is owned by the young kids , this literally happed a dozen times or more this year . I'm in line on a quad and next thing I know at the last minute I'm riding single and looking backwards at the last minute bail ....the kids have a sheepish look . Drives me nuts !
Ps My Wife is still pretty hot so I can assume I'm not that ugly.
Lifties .... They need to chastise that sort of behavior but seems these days are averse to confrontation too so there's that
Cattle control upstream requires more employees so not likely
Riding a Gondola with strangers during Covid era I can understand people unwilling to get into a confined box .
I'm with Ripitz
-If this is a problem at a particular resort, then signage and directions by staff need to make it clear that the expectation is that guests pair up with others and fill all available seats.
-Refusing to ride with other people when there's a big line is really no different than cutting the line, and should be dealt with accordingly."
This one is owned by the young kids , this literally happed a dozen times or more this year . I'm in line on a quad and next thing I know at the last minute I'm riding single and looking backwards at the last minute bail ....the kids have a sheepish look . Drives me nuts !
Ps My Wife is still pretty hot so I can assume I'm not that ugly.
Lifties .... They need to chastise that sort of behavior but seems these days are averse to confrontation too so there's that
Cattle control upstream requires more employees so not likely
Riding a Gondola with strangers during Covid era I can understand people unwilling to get into a confined box .
I'm with Ripitz
D.B. Cooper
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2020
Sno, I'm not going to chide you for this dissertation. Far from it. I completely understand where you're coming from. Your objective is to maximize the amount of skiing. I encourage you to ask yourself, however, whether this is the objective of the primary target market that a given ski area is trying to attract. I rather doubt it is.
Consider this guy's brief talk about hospitality. Although it's talking about restaurants, a key question that any business must ask is, "what business am I in?" IMO, ski areas are in the hospitality business, not the "most runs in a day" business.
How important is the answer to this question? Well, 100 years ago there were many, many people who cut blocks of ice out of frozen lakes during the winter, for use in ice boxes. How many exist today? None. Why is that? Well, they thought they were in the business of ice. If they understood they were in the business of refrigeration, they probably would have succeeded, making the jump from ice to freon powered devices.
IBM understood the "what business are you in" question. Today "International Business Machines" doesn't make any machines, and hasn't for 20 years. It's now a software business.
Consider this guy's brief talk about hospitality. Although it's talking about restaurants, a key question that any business must ask is, "what business am I in?" IMO, ski areas are in the hospitality business, not the "most runs in a day" business.
How important is the answer to this question? Well, 100 years ago there were many, many people who cut blocks of ice out of frozen lakes during the winter, for use in ice boxes. How many exist today? None. Why is that? Well, they thought they were in the business of ice. If they understood they were in the business of refrigeration, they probably would have succeeded, making the jump from ice to freon powered devices.
IBM understood the "what business are you in" question. Today "International Business Machines" doesn't make any machines, and hasn't for 20 years. It's now a software business.
snoloco
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2021
A few points:
Guests who refused to pair up were traditionally teenagers. That's why Mountain Creek always did such a poor job with filling chairs. The covid era made this much worse and gave even more people a justification for this behavior. I say if you are unwilling to ride a gondola with other people, then don't ride the gondola. If you're not willing to ride a chair with other people, then don't ski. Refusing to fill all available seats is no different than cutting the line and you are not entitled to making everyone else wait longer.
Ski areas being in the hospitality business is not an excuse for bad operations. Given that there are social media accounts literally dedicated to complaining about lift lines, it's safe to say that shorter lines and more runs tends to increase guest satisfaction. This is not a ski area, but when the Six Flags chain of amusement parks was having low attendance numbers, guest satisfaction actually went up according to their surveys. Why? Because they were getting on more rides on each visit to the park.
I've often been disappointed in Gore's lift operations. It's not something they were ever the best at, but Gore is one of the few places that I have observed getting worse over the past 5-10 years, which is incredibly frustrating to watch. I mentioned in a different thread how I skied multiple President's Weekends at Gore growing up. I remember them always loading 8 on the gondola back then. The Adirondack Express, both the triple and quad versions, had a front row style queue with someone to direct the line on busy days. This continued when I went to college and started skiing at Gore on a more regular basis. I also remember all 3 high speed lifts running at 900-1000 fpm on crowded days, with the gondola and Burnt Ridge on the lower end of this range and the AE2 on the upper end.
Then things took a turn for the worse. In the 2018-2019 season, I noticed the AE2 started running much slower. It rarely exceeded 900 fpm anymore. The gondola and Burnt Ridge were actually faster now. I also noticed that they stopped loading 8 on the gondola around this time.
In the 2019-2020 season, they added RFID, which I've generally considered a good thing for most resorts. Unfortunately, Gore just implemented it very poorly. The gates are way too close to the lifts, and if one person's pass doesn't work, it holds up the entire line and chairs go up empty. This also ended any organization of the AE2's queue. While it sometimes had a singles line, they would never direct traffic or try to fill chairs.
We all know what happened in the covid year so let's fast forward to now. The lifts are still ridiculously slow, and only the gondola and AE2 even have singles lines. Staff have seemingly completely forgotten how to direct the lines and fill the seats because cabins/chairs are still going up half full on crowded days. There is no excuse for that. I just don't understand how they have gotten so much worse at moving people up the mountain.
Guests who refused to pair up were traditionally teenagers. That's why Mountain Creek always did such a poor job with filling chairs. The covid era made this much worse and gave even more people a justification for this behavior. I say if you are unwilling to ride a gondola with other people, then don't ride the gondola. If you're not willing to ride a chair with other people, then don't ski. Refusing to fill all available seats is no different than cutting the line and you are not entitled to making everyone else wait longer.
Ski areas being in the hospitality business is not an excuse for bad operations. Given that there are social media accounts literally dedicated to complaining about lift lines, it's safe to say that shorter lines and more runs tends to increase guest satisfaction. This is not a ski area, but when the Six Flags chain of amusement parks was having low attendance numbers, guest satisfaction actually went up according to their surveys. Why? Because they were getting on more rides on each visit to the park.
I've often been disappointed in Gore's lift operations. It's not something they were ever the best at, but Gore is one of the few places that I have observed getting worse over the past 5-10 years, which is incredibly frustrating to watch. I mentioned in a different thread how I skied multiple President's Weekends at Gore growing up. I remember them always loading 8 on the gondola back then. The Adirondack Express, both the triple and quad versions, had a front row style queue with someone to direct the line on busy days. This continued when I went to college and started skiing at Gore on a more regular basis. I also remember all 3 high speed lifts running at 900-1000 fpm on crowded days, with the gondola and Burnt Ridge on the lower end of this range and the AE2 on the upper end.
Then things took a turn for the worse. In the 2018-2019 season, I noticed the AE2 started running much slower. It rarely exceeded 900 fpm anymore. The gondola and Burnt Ridge were actually faster now. I also noticed that they stopped loading 8 on the gondola around this time.
In the 2019-2020 season, they added RFID, which I've generally considered a good thing for most resorts. Unfortunately, Gore just implemented it very poorly. The gates are way too close to the lifts, and if one person's pass doesn't work, it holds up the entire line and chairs go up empty. This also ended any organization of the AE2's queue. While it sometimes had a singles line, they would never direct traffic or try to fill chairs.
We all know what happened in the covid year so let's fast forward to now. The lifts are still ridiculously slow, and only the gondola and AE2 even have singles lines. Staff have seemingly completely forgotten how to direct the lines and fill the seats because cabins/chairs are still going up half full on crowded days. There is no excuse for that. I just don't understand how they have gotten so much worse at moving people up the mountain.
Ripitz
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2020
I was verbally threatened privately by someone for mentioning midweek but I’m not scared.
I see much potential for increased productivity during my weekday shifts. I understand the weekend inspections have found numerous bottlenecks in the assembly line. Moving more material through the process during periods of lower production will greatly increase the efficiency of the system in its entirety.
Also, RFID cards are problematic. Barcodes should be stamped on people’s faces and season passholders should have them tattooed.
I see much potential for increased productivity during my weekday shifts. I understand the weekend inspections have found numerous bottlenecks in the assembly line. Moving more material through the process during periods of lower production will greatly increase the efficiency of the system in its entirety.
Also, RFID cards are problematic. Barcodes should be stamped on people’s faces and season passholders should have them tattooed.
Last edited:
MiSkier
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2020
This is where I am going to say my home ski hill of Caberfae Peaks in Mi shines. On weekends or holiday periods they always have 3 lift attendants. They also have three lifts lines and one single lift line, the fist person checks your lift ticket and takes each line and makes sure that the lift is full. The other two lifties are at the loading area and unload area. They could give lessons on how to move the lift line. It’s also nice to see one the owners(the guy in the orange hat) checking tickets and getting the chairs full
Attachments
Benny Profane
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2020
Is this a tryout for a resume enhancing pitch to work for Vail?
