Gore Mountain, NY: 01/18/2025

[SIAWOL]

ive never heard of any electrical curtailment @ Gore as part if NYISO agreement until this year....and that can't reasonably be used as the reason for poor output. Red herring.

 

[snoloco]

If that’s true it means Whiteface is prioritizing snowmaking over curtailment payments which is invite opposite of Gore. But the real questions are how much are operations disrupted and why participate at all if there is a high probability of significant disruption? Participants get a notification of a possible event the day before but only a 2 hour notice of an actual curtailment. I think there have been 4 day ahead notices but only one curtailment this week. How does Gore respond? Did they send their overworked people home all 4days? Do they call them in at 10pm or not at all? Also, NYISO requires only 4 hours of load reduction, not 6 as ORDA has said it will provide.
Considering how badly Gore has performed this year and how little time there is to build the Hole Shot course, ORDA should consider dropping out of the curtailment program or moving Hole Shot to LP or both.

mm

Curtailments are not something you opt in and out of. The utility company in any given area has to supply power to a wide variety of customers in a wide variety of demand scenarios. Demand is at its highest in the evenings before very cold nights. They can't overload the grid, or there will be outages. So they will ask (or require) large commercial customers to reduce their load during that specific time period to avoid outages. There can be varying degrees, or varying times. Sometimes, there will be the option to "buy through" the curtailment. That is, operations continue as normal, but electric rates during that time are 3-4x higher. Sometimes it is mandatory, and there is no option to buy through. This isn't a change from the past, but there were hardly any very cold nights the last 2 years, so it wasn't something they had to deal with.

Regarding the timeframe, I believe they are notified of a possible curtailment ahead of time and given a timeframe. That was where the 6 hours (4pm to 10pm) came from, where there was the possibility of the lifts closing early. Then, closer to the time, they are given more specifics. I'm sure the utility company has very detailed data on power supply and demand, and knows when and to what degree the grid could become stressed. The lifts actually never closed early, and I think there was only one evening where the snowmaking was shut down, from 6pm to 10pm. Power demand is always at its lowest in the overnight hours, so snowmaking can come back after 10pm, but draining and charging lines in these temps can be risky and lead to freezing, especially with a shorthanded and inexperienced crew.

Whiteface was subject to the same thing as Gore, and there was also I think one night where snowmaking was shut down. They opted to only work on the lower mountain when there was a possibility of a curtailment to avoid having to drain and charge their multiple booster stations. I think this yielded the most water actually turned into snow, and the best long-term results (base building for spring on critical routes), but in the short term, many, myself included, would like them to finish their remaining snowmaking trails.

 

[Milo Maltbie]

Curtailments are not something you opt in and out of.

Nope.
They opted into one of the two load reduction programs and are paid to participate. If they choose not to curtail, they forego the payments due in one program, or they are billed higher rates for a few hours in the other program, That's all.
The question is how much do those programs disrupt operations? They get a notice the day before a possible curtailment, and a notice 2 hours before the actual curtailment if it happens. But how do they manage the workers? Do they send them home based on the day before notice, or wait for the 2 hour notice? Do they call them back at the end of the curtailment or wait for the next day? How much disruption do they expect? Is it even reasonable to be in a program that may disrupt snowmaking several nights a year?
Gore has 3 weeks before Presidents Week (when they typically shut down snowmaking), 4 weeks before NYPSAA state Alpine and XC championships, and 5 weeks before Hole Shot, and other races after that. They haven't even hired enough workers for a 7 day snowmaking schedule, and they chose to join a program that predictably will disrupt snowmaking. At this point they have no credibility. If ORDA can spend $40 million on a zippy lodge they should be able to hire enough people and pay their electric bill.

mm

 

[snoloco]

I'm speaking to what I'm used to at Killington, and the other Vermont resorts. Maybe it's different for each utility company. Over there, curtailments, when they occur, are typically 5pm to 9pm. There have not been any that I'm aware of this year. They had several last year though. Sometimes they choose to buy through it. The snowmaking staff are not sent home. They shut off the guns prior to the curtailment, then recharge and restart afterwards. The whole rest of the night and the next day is business as usual. If Gore is sending their snowmaking staff home for an entire shift because of a 4 hour curtailment, then it is impacting snowmaking operations a lot more than it needs to.

And yes, Gore repeatedly increases their footprint, or signs up for major events that require a large snowmaking/grooming commitment without scaling their operation accordingly. They actually have until the end of February to make snow, not until just President's Weekend. Their snowmaking season is November 1st to February 28th. Once again, this has to do with the utility company, and most resorts have the same snowmaking season. I believe they need to pay a fixed fee for each month they plan on making snow. Whether Gore chooses to use their entire snowmaking season remains up in their air.

 

[Milo Maltbie]

@snoloco we agree the Gore has overcommitted to what their mountain ops can support. They seem to have an adequate physical plant but they apparently failed to hire enough workers to use it effectively. Volunteering for the power curtailment program hurt them this year as well. Those are within management control. They have essentially wasted the majority of the snowmaking season this year. It’s totally amanagement failure and if my friends who work there can be believed, the failure extends to other departments there as well.

mm

 

[Tjf1967]

@snoloco we agree the Gore has overcommitted to what their mountain ops can support. They seem to have an adequate physical plant but they apparently failed to hire enough workers to use it effectively. Volunteering for the power curtailment program hurt them this year as well. Those are within management control. They have essentially wasted the majority of the snowmaking season this year. It’s totally amanagement failure and if my friends who work there can be believed, the failure extends to other departments there as well.

mm

You have friends?