Detachable vs Fixed Grip Lifts

[x10003q]

I often hear that people want a HS lift on the North Side at Gore. They say it because it is really slow. Not sure, but I think they run it slow too.

This is an interesting debate. They run it slow for the many little kids/families/green skiers who use the lift. If it was a HSQ, it would always be easy to load and unload. That area is almost always underutilized. A HSQ would change that.

Here's a question or seven.

Do high speed chairs attract more skiers?

Absolutely.

If the answer is no, and every chair in the country was a high speed, would there be negative impacts beyond possibly profitability?

If yes, would trails, parking, lodges be more crowded, so you'd need more of all?

Ski areas with HS lifts generally attract more visitors. Gore and Burke (2 HSQs) prove that this is not always true. People forget that a FGQ can move the same amount of people as a HSQ.

To RA's point where does it makes sense to add a HS lift? What are the criteria? Is it just long wait times at ski areas with uncrowded trails? Long wait times at ski areas that aren't profitable?

The length, the number or trails and acreage served, the marketing effect. Stratton replaced its Snowbowl FGQ with a HSQ that has essentially the same capacity and the whole upper mountain at Stratton skis much better. People hated riding the Snowbowl FGQ because it was slow and you were exposed to a windy and cold area for longer. The new HSQ has drawn people away from the hyper crowded Ursa HS6.

I do think the 3 HS lifts make Gore a better experience, but if you include their capex budget in the calculations are they profitable?

The 3 HS lifts absolutely make Gore better. If Gore was privately owned, 3 high speed lifts might be light for its size. The Hudson Triple and even the Top Ridge Triple would be possible locations for HS lifts. Private ownership of Gore would want to have a much bigger lodge and parking at the base of the Ski Bowl. That would be a reason to have a HS lift in the Ski Bowl.

 

[Harvey]

The 3 HS lifts absolutely make Gore better. If Gore was privately owned, 3 high speed lifts might be light for its size. The Hudson Triple and even the Top Ridge Triple would be possible locations for HS lifts. Private ownership of Gore would want to have a much bigger lodge and parking at the base of the Ski Bowl. That would be a reason to have a HS lift in the Ski Bowl.

So without more terrain, more crowded.

Granted more snowmaking would help, you'd get more terrain certainly at Christmas, probably at MLK. Usually things are fully open by Presidents.

 

[x10003q]

So without more terrain, more crowded.

No, replacing a FGQ with a HSQ can keep the same capacity.
Adding a few more trails (including a green trail) to Burnt Ridge is how a normal ski area would work.

Granted more snowmaking would help, you'd get more terrain certainly at Christmas, probably at MLK. Usually things are fully open by Presidents.

Yes.

 

[x10003q]

Is covid going away and the wfh crowd going back to the office?

The WFH crowd is still WFH and will be for the near future. Even beyond, many businesses are offering full WFH. The issue for WFH near skiing is related to families with school age kids. Kids are back in school full time. Do you want to completely move to resort area schools or remain in your existing school system (and friends/sports/art/music/lifestyle)?

One thought is that it’s more ideal if you have an ample sized unloading area and at least 3-4 equally popular trails leaving directly from the top terminal. As far as capacity is concerned, that can be adjusted with the spacing of the chairs.

This!!!!

 

[Harvey]

No, replacing a FGQ with a HSQ can keep the same capacity.

So doesn't shorten lift lines, just reduces ride time.

 

[Ripitz]

So without more terrain, more crowded.

Belleayre is a great of example of how throwing in a high speed, high capacity lift brings crowds and dangerous trail conditions.

 

[MarzNC]

When we skied at Taos two years ago we mostly lapped the HS quad chairs.

I think our mindset was if you are going to travel and spend a bunch of money being there we wanted to get in as much skiing as possible. The two or three chair waits for a fast ride up made sense.

Taos is my favorite place to ski now since it has the terrain, good lifts and there’s practically no one there.

Yep, lapping Lift 1 at Taos is a lot more fun now that it's a HS quad. I like the terrain over off Lift 8 but it's hard to justify staying there for more than a few runs since it's a long fixed-grip quad that's on the slow side.

Hard to compare a destination resort in the Rockies with a small mountain in the midwest, or anywhere on the east coast though. Different market, different snow conditions, different vertical and lift lengths.

 

[Brownski]

Belleayre is a great of example of how throwing in a high speed, high capacity lift brings crowds and dangerous trail conditions.

Yes. The gondola might be an even better example than the Jiminy six pack. The Tomahawk used to be a refuge from the crowds.

 

[MarzNC]

No, replacing a FGQ with a HSQ can keep the same capacity.

So doesn't shorten lift lines, just reduces ride time.

That reminds me . . . when Alta replaced the old Supreme triple with a HS quad, the idea was that the spacing of chairs and speed would be adjusted so that the terrain would not be overloaded. Meaning they weren't planning on running the lift at max capacity. Definitely reduced ride time. Harder to compare lift lines because the new lift is much longer and starts at the mid-mountain lodge, Alf's, instead of higher up that took a little more effort to reach. Now ride fewer minutes for a longer run. Of course, the old timers who are lapping the steepest terrain complain because there is more of a run out than before.

 

[raisingarizona]

So doesn't shorten lift lines, just reduces ride time.

It’s like old people’s diapers, depends.