Bike Parks: Past and Present

I’d like to rebuild that park into a more family and ebike friendly system with a dedicated climbing trail and long, sustainable machine built flow trails. No lifts needed.

If it was done right and the trails were super fun you could definitely attract customers. I think you could make it different than anything else around and have ebike rentals. Maybe even guides and lessons.
Not to shoot you down but as someone whose spent equally if not more time on a bike as a board at Plattekill, family, friendly and flow are the last three words that come to mind. Danny Hart was known to go out of his was to ride Plattekill when in NY for Windahm World Cup, he's claimed its one of the most challenging places he's ridden. The pitch and the shale would make building beginner and intermediate trails near impossible. I've always described riding Plattekill like skiing powder skiing a steep sluffy slope, except the snow following you down the trail is all loose shale.
 
Not to shoot you down but as someone whose spent equally if not more time on a bike as a board at Plattekill, family, friendly and flow are the last three words that come to mind. Danny Hart was known to go out of his was to ride Plattekill when in NY for Windahm World Cup, he's claimed its one of the most challenging places he's ridden. The pitch and the shale would make building beginner and intermediate trails near impossible. I've always described riding Plattekill like skiing powder skiing a steep sluffy slope, except the snow following you down the trail is all loose shale.
Seems to be sensitive.
Be careful out there.
 
Very cool, Neko is a great ambassador of the sport. It's great to see a "local" kid do so well.
 
Could you explain? I'm a MTBer; however, I have zero knowledge about this sort of thing.
Gladly; there are multiple different definitions for sustainable trail design, typically the design is informed by some combination of user groups, local weather patterns and natural terrain. A trail that receives traffic from ORV's in the dessert is going to require completely different design considerations than a hiking only trail in the pacific north west. The US Forest Service has their own very specific guidelines for trail development, similarly specific state agencies hold their own guidelines.

General rules of thumb are never to cut trail down a fall line and to always cut trail across a hillside utilizing a "bench-cut" This is done in an effort to curb the impacts of erosion driven primarily by running water. Trail builders spend a huge chunk of their time analyzing the landscape and thinking about how water moves across it. Sustainable trails are generally not cut across slopes that exceed a 14% grade and ideally incorporate long sight lines to avoid user collisions and allow for ample time to brake with out skidding. Grade reversals are also incorporated to better manage speed without the need for braking.

Plattekills trails are old school downhill race trails, they were developed before IMBA's "Trail Solutions" were the guiding principals for MTB trail design. They follow steep fall lines and make very little consideration for water, often they resemble a creek or begin to look rutted. There is nothing wrong with trails like this on private land that see relatively little traffic, IMO they are super fun and unique trails in a time when everything is becoming a "flow" trail. The issue is when trails like the ones at Plattekill are built rouge on public lands, too much traffic makes them erode to the point of no return sometimes all the way down to raw bedrock, faster speeds and poor sight lines also make for negative user interactions.

I could go way deeper if you like and I am sure RA has plenty to add as a private contractor, I come from a background of public non for profit trail agencies here in the North East. Land managers have a lot to play into what trail is sustainable and what is not, I'm personally very happy I don't have to deal with the conflict rich west with the BLM, NFS, ranchers, bikes, mining interest, and motorized use all butting heads.
 
Not to shoot you down but as someone whose spent equally if not more time on a bike as a board at Plattekill, family, friendly and flow are the last three words that come to mind. Danny Hart was known to go out of his was to ride Plattekill when in NY for Windahm World Cup, he's claimed its one of the most challenging places he's ridden. The pitch and the shale would make building beginner and intermediate trails near impossible. I've always described riding Plattekill like skiing powder skiing a steep sluffy slope, except the snow following you down the trail is all loose shale.
You wouldn’t believe the places I’ve built trail in. The conditions of a trail are more so due to their design and construction. You can build steep and gnarly to be sustainable but it’s a lot more work and more expensive than the old school fall line dh trails at Plattekill.

Yeah, private land can be used to build unsustainable trails, I guess but most land managers wouldn’t want it that way. There may be a small group of fans for that sort of experience as well but unfortunately they don’t generally keep the lights on. The old school fall line stuff isn’t going to bring in the numbers to justify that sort of bike park any longer. Times have changed.
 
Gladly; there are multiple different definitions for sustainable trail design, typically the design is informed by some combination of user groups, local weather patterns and natural terrain. A trail that receives traffic from ORV's in the dessert is going to require completely different design considerations than a hiking only trail in the pacific north west. The US Forest Service has their own very specific guidelines for trail development, similarly specific state agencies hold their own guidelines.

General rules of thumb are never to cut trail down a fall line and to always cut trail across a hillside utilizing a "bench-cut" This is done in an effort to curb the impacts of erosion driven primarily by running water. Trail builders spend a huge chunk of their time analyzing the landscape and thinking about how water moves across it. Sustainable trails are generally not cut across slopes that exceed a 14% grade and ideally incorporate long sight lines to avoid user collisions and allow for ample time to brake with out skidding. Grade reversals are also incorporated to better manage speed without the need for braking.

Plattekills trails are old school downhill race trails, they were developed before IMBA's "Trail Solutions" were the guiding principals for MTB trail design. They follow steep fall lines and make very little consideration for water, often they resemble a creek or begin to look rutted. There is nothing wrong with trails like this on private land that see relatively little traffic, IMO they are super fun and unique trails in a time when everything is becoming a "flow" trail. The issue is when trails like the ones at Plattekill are built rouge on public lands, too much traffic makes them erode to the point of no return sometimes all the way down to raw bedrock, faster speeds and poor sight lines also make for negative user interactions.

I could go way deeper if you like and I am sure RA has plenty to add as a private contractor, I come from a background of public non for profit trail agencies here in the North East. Land managers have a lot to play into what trail is sustainable and what is not, I'm personally very happy I don't have to deal with the conflict rich west with the BLM, NFS, ranchers, bikes, mining interest, and motorized use all butting heads.
You are correct on most of this except you can definitely build bench cut trail across slopes exceeding 14%.

Do the trails at Plattekill make them money? Like really? Are they even that popular anymore? I haven’t been hearing that.
 

This edit has a bunch of freeride lines I’ve put together and trail I’ve designed and constructed. The East Zion trail, Bison Chute is steep and incorporates rock armoring to create that old school vibe in a sustainable manner. It also has tables, a step down, a step up, skinnies and massive berms.
 
Back
Top