Alpine Touring Thread

[gefiltephish]

The main difference seems, and I'm sure others on this forum have a much better sense about this than I, is that the US Forest Service seems to be a much better partner for these groups operating in VT and NH compared to the DEC.

Simply backcountry ski trails need regular maintenance and thinning of understory in the NE and NYS seems reluctant to allow that from my understanding. I sort of understand this in Wilderness Areas, but what would it take to, for example, allow a volunteer group to cut glades in Vanderwhacker Wild Forest?

In terms of ski trails on public land, NY seems difficult. NY 'Forever Wild' lands like Catskill and ADK make it very difficult to design/build new trail or rehab forgotten ones that'd make for good skiing. Multi-use trails are definitely prioritized over sport specific trails, although there are definitely some 'specified' trails (Hunter firetower path for horses, canoe portages in the Dacks). I believe the removal of trees (of any diameter) was not allowed on a BETA (Barkeaters Trail Alliance) mtb trail project near Saranac. That same BETA group maintains the Jackrabbit Ski trail from Keene Valley to Placid. Seems mostly XC skiing, curious about access steeper terrain. As a side note, the BETA mountain bike trails in the region kick ass!

I wonder if these same 'red tape' issues play in to repairs/reroutes on many old, eroded falls line trails in the Catskills and 'Dacks. Similar struggles in managing USFS wilderness areas I suppose, but at least there are non-wilderness Forest lands... I'd be very surprised (and stoked) to hear of DEC working on a ski glade project. I'm very curious about Adirondack Powder Skier Association, anyone hear of that group?

 

[Harvey]

BETA & APSA

MC has.

This is really the stated goal of ASPA. The way I understand it, to get the state to create an create a wider definition for "ski trails" to allow glading or multiple lines. Most official (DEC) ski trails now or really more nordic or XCD.

 

[idratherbskiing]

BETA & APSA

thanks!

 

[idratherbskiing]

Let's not forget the existence of a heavily state subsidized ski hill just a half hour up 28, distracting possible customers. Twice I drove up to Hickory, learned that they wouldn't be open until at least 10am, and just jumped in the car and I was skiing Gore in 45 minutes.

Im all for Gore when lifts spin, but I was hoping for some easy dawn patrol from LG village on work days. New to the area

 

[Duckbutter]

Not sure where in the Vandy you are thinking, as it is a very widespread area, but this is happening, and I don't believe it is clandestine.

That's exciting! I was just speaking generally and wondering if one would be able to pull this off at all in a legal fashion.

Do you ski in the east?

I have. I grew up doing so and may be again soon. Long time listener, first time caller. The reason that I became active on this forum recently is to try to get a sense for the BC scene and potential.

 

[Duckbutter]

This is really the stated goal of ASPA. The way I understand it, to get the state to create an create a wider definition for "ski trails" to allow glading or multiple lines. Most official (DEC) ski trails now or really more nordic or XCD.

It seems like they've been at this for a long time and I'm grateful that someone is spearheading the cause but it doesn't seem like much progress has been made, at least from my researching. I may be wrong and I hope I am.

 

[Harvey]

Long time listener, first time caller.

??? "Eeeeeh... I don know Mikey!"

It seems like they've been at this for a long time and I'm grateful that someone is spearheading the cause but it doesn't seem like much progress has been made, at least from my researching. I may be wrong and I hope I am.

I have no concrete proof.

 

[Duckbutter]

Multi-use trails are definitely prioritized over sport specific trails

What is a multi-use trail? Is mountain biking allowed on these? Nordic skiing? And this goes back to the root of the issue and I suppose the idea of redefining a ski trail because a glade is really nothing at all like a trail. There is no disturbance to the soil or ground, erosion, etc.

Similar struggles in managing USFS wilderness areas I suppose, but at least there are non-wilderness Forest lands

Yeah, there are a lot of non-wilderness areas in the USFS system.

One thing that strikes me, and I am sure this has been discussed elsewhere on this forum, is if you look at TrailForks there seems to be a vast network of snowmobile trails all across the north country and really very little of other activities, even non-winter. Yes, I'm sure there are lots of hiking trails but who really cares about hiking. Kidding.

Now granted this is data provided by the users and perhaps the snowmobile community is just better at documenting their trails than other groups but I suspect there is some truth to this. I have nothing against snowmobiles and even hope to own one someday but it just seems weird that growing sports that promote health and fitness such as backcountry skiing and mountain biking have such a tough time growing on public land in the region.

 

[Campgottagopee]

What is a multi-use trail? Is mountain biking allowed on these? Nordic skiing? And this goes back to the root of the issue and I suppose the idea of redefining a ski trail because a glade is really nothing at all like a trail. There is no disturbance to the soil or ground, erosion, etc.


Yeah, there are a lot of non-wilderness areas in the USFS system.

One thing that strikes me, and I am sure this has been discussed elsewhere on this forum, is if you look at TrailForks there seems to be a vast network of snowmobile trails all across the north country and really very little of other activities, even non-winter. Yes, I'm sure there are lots of hiking trails but who really cares about hiking. Kidding.
View attachment 6772

Now granted this is data provided by the users and perhaps the snowmobile community is just better at documenting their trails than other groups but I suspect there is some truth to this. I have nothing against snowmobiles and even hope to own one someday but it just seems weird that growing sports that promote health and fitness such as backcountry skiing and mountain biking have such a tough time growing on public land in the region.

North country businesses would crumble up and blow away if it wasn't for the revenue generated by snowmobilers. That's the number one reason. Another reason is our registration monies go to the snowmobile clubs who maintain the trails.
A bunch of hippies clomping around in the woods won't bring that kind of cash to the region. (That was a joke)

 

[Duckbutter]

North country businesses would crumble up and blow away if it wasn't for the revenue generated by snowmobilers. That's the number one reason. Another reason is our registration monies go to the snowmobile clubs who maintain the trails.
A bunch of hippies clomping around in the woods won't bring that kind of cash to the region. (That was a joke)

Why can't it be and instead of or. In VT the snowmobile trails form an access network that bc skiers use and benefit from.

I'm sure a tree has never been cut down to build a snowmobile trail.