Perspective

[Face4Me]

This post really resonated with me ... I've been skiing Whiteface for 17 years (so not a much experience as MM) and there's no doubt in my mind, things have really changed (not for the better), over the last 3 or 4 years ... pretty much coinciding with Ted Blazer's retirement and Mike Pratt being named CEO of ORDA. The focus has clearly changed ... it used to be about the skiing (not to say there weren't problems before, but the skiing was always the point) ... now it's about amenities. I noticed today that they're putting in EV charging stations at Whiteface ... that's great ... how about a snowmaking system that actually works?

...

I'm glad that things have turned around there ... I just don't know if or when that's going to happen at Whiteface. I don't think it will ever happen with the current management team at ORDA. I'm definitely starting to reconsider my plans and options for the future. It may no longer be "the Face" for me.

I made the posts above in another thread, and I've been reading a lot of the posts about the changes at Gore, and I've been thinking a lot about my skiing future. That has led me to this post.

In the mid to late nineties, I had all but given up skiing. I lived in the Lower Hudson Valley, and in those days, skiing for me was pretty much limited to day trips to Hunter and Windham. Honestly, I really didn't like either of those ski areas, but they were the only decent options available to me. I would go 2, maybe 3 times a year, and that was it. I think there was one year where I didn't ski at all.

Then, during the 2000/2001 season, I decided to take an overnight mid-week trip to Lake Placid. I remember leaving my house at around 4:00 am and went straight to the mountain. I got there just before the lifts opened. I skied all day, spent the night in Lake Placid, then skied all of the following day and drove home. I don't know why, but something relit the spark for me on that trip. I had skied Whiteface a few times before, in the late 80's and early 90's, but there was something different about it this time. Two years later, after taking a few more overnight trips, I bought a second home in Lake Placid, and have been skiing Whiteface ever since.

I'm a skier. Anyone who has skied with me can tell you that I am by no means a great skier, but for my own purposes, I'm good enough, and it's something I really enjoy. I could have bought a home anywhere, but I chose Lake Placid and Whiteface. I'm not someone who cares about fancy lodges, heated bubble chair lifts, slope-side lodging, table service, etc. I can get all of that anywhere. What matters to me, is the skiing, and in my opinion, that was what Whiteface used to be about.

But, "The Times They Are A-Changin'". ORDA's focus has changed, and they are trying to appeal to a different demographic. In short, they are "following the money", and I can't really blame them for that. It's hard to argue with the logic of trying to appeal to a family who is going to come up for a weekend and drop $3000 - $5000 on lift tickets, private lessons, rentals, ski shop purchases, food & drink, etc. (not to mention all the money they're going to spend in Lake Placid) versus someone who's going to buy a season pass for $750 and that's about it. When these changes started to happen a few years ago, I wasn't too concerned ... It really didn't matter to me whether they built new lodges, etc., as long as I could still do my own thing.

There's no doubt the weather and the pandemic are partly to blame right now, but I think there's more to it than that. Poaching trails, ducking ropes and things like that, were never allowed, but such transgressions were usually overlooked ... unless you were a complete jerk about it. That is no longer the case ... for me, a lot of the fun has been taken out of it. In another post, someone suggested that ORDA is "homogenizing" their mountains ... I think that was a very good way to describe it. It's unfortunate, but they apparently don't think the "old school" approach can coexist with the "new school" approach.

I'm beginning to feel about skiing the way I was feeling about it in the mid-nineties. I don't think I'm alone. I know quite a few people who have also started to move on. These are people that were truly die-hards just a couple of years ago, and now, just go a few times a year, if at all. I'm sure there are a variety of reasons for that, but in the end, I think a big part of it is that the fun just isn't there anymore and it's just not worth the effort.

I guess it's time for me to find my new Whiteface. I believe the phrase is "Go West young old man".

 

[Campgottagopee]

I'm rowing the same boat as you, Face. Partly, and mostly due to injury, but also due to the rollercoaster weather we've had for the past several years. Bracing up to go ski groomers isn't a thing I have any interest in doing. Like you (we've skied together so you know), I'm not the best on the hill but I'll ski anything with anyone and enjoy it. But getting hurt, twice now while skiing, has me thinking is it worth it. At 54 I don't want to take another injury that potentially will take me out of work. Again. With that said, and due to COVID, I've rolled my Greek Peak pass to next year. I'm in no way thinking the snow will be better or anything, rather hopeful that another year of no skiing will help spark my interest in crusing groomers. Who knows. Time will tell. Right now, and the past 5 years, riding my sled during marginal conditions is fun and I don't see that changing.

Going west for me isn't going to work. I don't like traveling at all.

Good post.

 

[Face4Me]

Going west for me isn't going to work. I don't like traveling at all.

I'm lucky ... I can work from anywhere (just need an internet connection). My wife & I are thinking about the idea of selling our place in Lake Placid, and then doing season long rentals at other places around the country. One year here ... another year there ... that sort of thing.

She's retired and doesn't ski, but she's all for the idea of a "change of scenery". We'll see!

 

[Sick Bird Rider]

@Face4Me, have you considered getting into backcountry skiing? With a base in Lake Placid, you are in a great location to start that learning curve. Or get some snowshoes or Hoks and start doing some winter hiking. Or buy a fat bike. All are excellent ways to enjoy winter without the help of a chairlift, get some exercise, learn new skills, find a new challenge and occasionally scare the crap out of yourself.

 

[jasonwx]

Excellent post. Face

 

[sig]

i'm with ya. we are similar in age wonder if we are going through the change of life. the weather is the biggest obstacle. i want glades and natural snow. opening day at plattekill was the bomb. we were talking about what a great base we had. anything going forward was gravy. who envisioned 6 inches of rain, wtf. I have my eyes on Tempe AZ. 2 hrs from Flagstaff and long weekend options to Colorado or New Mexico. Plus skiing or golf in the winter. this would also get my wife off my back, she no longer skis and wants out of the cold. going to try a month or two out there one of these winters. i agree with above post, get some snow shoes and a cheap back country set up. you are in great location for both.

 

[Warp daddy]

Face we HEAR ya ! As Yogi Berra said " the future ain't what it used to be. "
This certainly applies to what has been happening in the ski industry .

I feel much like you , i enjoyed the crap out of skiiing , but could care less about so called amenities which added little value ro the sport while driving the cost skyward . It was all about the quiet enjoyment and beauty of the woods and the mountain itself along with skiing with my posse who are of like mind.

Frankly The glitz and social status of party skiers who's only interest was being "seen at Mahogany Ridge " ? While taking a very few runs yet demanding more and more comforts . Yeah so like Clint Eastwood i Just Got weary of the entitled Karens and Biffs with tude issues all decked out in their Bogners n' Beemers .

So now at 77 after 2 hip replacements in the last 5 years on the same side ,( one a botched surgery ) i voluntarily hit the sidelines 4 years ago . Just aint worth the hassle ,too manu other interests . Yet still love the winter and XC skiing which i do when the conditions allow . I do miss the actual skiing but not the sideshow and the dawn patrol driving and then schlepping gear across the icy lots .

That said, keep searching out quality time on the mountain , its good for the soul . But as you age quality trumps quantity . Have fun .

 

[Benny Profane]

Cant go into the backcountry if it doesn't snow. Or snows and then gets washed away by 6 inches of rain.

 

[DomB]

i'm with ya. we are similar in age wonder if we are going through the change of life. the weather is the biggest obstacle. i want glades and natural snow. opening day at plattekill was the bomb. we were talking about what a great base we had. anything going forward was gravy. who envisioned 6 inches of rain, wtf. I have my eyes on Tempe AZ. 2 hrs from Flagstaff and long weekend options to Colorado or New Mexico. Plus skiing or golf in the winter. this would also get my wife off my back, she no longer skis and wants out of the cold. going to try a month or two out there one of these winters. i agree with above post, get some snow shoes and a cheap back country set up. you are in great location for both.

I definitely think ORDA has been homogenizing the experience. I really got into skiing about 7-10 years ago at this point, and about 4-5 years ago started skiing about 20 days a year, a good haul for a flatlander negotiating a family relationship : ) .
I have very much seen the changes at Belle over that time, some of which predated the Gondola. It got significantly worse in the past 2-4 years when they got a new GM, who grew up at Hunter. From what I hear, they cut staff (including ski patrol, which prevents trails from being open) as all these new capital improvements go in.
Part of the issue is that for management, they have a budget, but the cap improvements may be coming to them at no cost/outside the budget - I just don't know.
Despite any negatives, I really love that feeling of gliding down the mountain, and family time on the hill.
For those of you that have places in the Daks, I would consider the points folks are making - it is shocking to me how many different recreational opportunities there are even in the Catskills. One thing New York got right was institutionalizing forever wild lands (even with all the headaches that I assume may come with that).

 

[tirolski]

Good topic Face4,
Started when I got skis, lace up boots for Christmas in early high school. Did the high school ski club thing and also whenever a neighbor asked me to tag along. (Other family members didn’t ski.)
Skied Holiday breaks in college and arranged last semester of senior year for no classes on Thursdays so we could hit Big Tupper from Potsdam. Took a year off from academia & tried to ski bum at Smuggs which ended quickly...
Went south for grad school and skiing was limited to Christmas breaks at home, though I proudly wore a “Ski Mississippi” shirt around campus&town. Came back home after and skied local hills with an occasional extended-stay trip to big mountains. Did some cross country too. I’ve always loved being outside and skiing. It doesn’t take much to find happiness however avoiding crowds when possible is a common theme.
Was planning to ski the Tyrollean Alps in Italy for a bucket list thing but the Rona has delayed that dream a bit. The reason I got a M-F pass last year at Gore was to practice for skiing there.
Last year a friend asked me to store his new in wrapper Altai Hak type skis at my house when he needed a place to put em during his move. He recently picked em up but they looked like they would be super-duper for skiing simply. Been simplifying things as much as possible as it’s been an easier way to roll for me.
Looking at it, appears to be a perspective.