snoloco
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2021
Yes, it's supposed to be Snow Train, but I figured I'd use the first part of my username. Anyways, this thread is to respond to various questions about trains in the other thread, without moving it off topic.
Amtrak mitigated this by operating most Empire trains as push/pull, by using depowered locomotives as cab control cars. This eliminates the need to turn the train around at the terminals. However, some trips must still use Sunnyside Yard, as they are stored there, and these were the ones that got dropped. The effect is that they dropped from 13 daily round trips to 10, but with the capacity of 11 due to the Maple Leaf and Adirondack operating combined south of Albany.
The other issue is that Amtrak is facing a severe equipment shortage, due to the premature retirement of several fleets, and just the aging nature of what is left. When the schedules were reduced, they were supposed to lengthen most of the remaining trains from 5 cars to 6 cars, but that never happened.
The result of this is that the trains sell out a lot quicker and charge much higher fares. It pissed a lot of people off, and the governor noticed. The response was to cap the Albany to New York fare at $99, restore one of the previously cancelled Amtrak trips, and add a new trip on Metro North. This works well because Metro North's schedules are very "peaky", meaning they run very frequent rush hour service, with much less frequent service at other times. So they have a lot of trains that sit in Grand Central all day until the evening rush. One of those can be sent to Albany and back in time for the evening rush, so it is essentially free equipment.
The Empire trains, while operated and branded as Amtrak, are not actually funded by Amtrak. New York State, through NYSDOT, pays Amtrak each year about $40M to both lease the equipment and operate the trains. NYSDOT could choose any operator for these trains though, so in this case, they looked to another state agency to do it. Because it is being paid for by NYSDOT, and not out of any MTA budget, it does not require expanding the Metropolitan Commuter Transportation District and its associated taxes to Columbia County and Rensselaer County (where the stations are). The trip is likely to be revenue-neutral as there is so much demand on the Albany-NYC route. As I mentioned earlier, it will use equipment that is normally sitting idle in Grand Central until the evening rush.
The shuttle from Westport likely did not work simply due to the travel time, and the indirect route. North of Schenectady, the Adirondack is very slow. Before part of it was ripped up for a bike path, the line from Utica via Old Forge and Tupper Lake was also a long, circuitous route. It would likely be better to have an express bus from Albany or Saratoga.
Didn't know about the bus to Belleayre. It's theoretically possible, but not really practical to use it to connect with Metro North. Amtrak's Vermonter passes somewhat near Stowe at Waterbury, and Jay Peak at Saint Albans, but I'm not aware of any local transit connections to those resorts.
The line from Saratoga to North Creek is 56 miles long. Assuming an average speed of 45 mph with upgraded track, the trip can be made in 1:15. Amtrak currently takes about 55 minutes from Saratoga to Albany, and 2:35 Albany to New York. Adding them up, you get 4:45, but likely closer to 5 hours, since trains have a layover in Albany to change crews. That is including all the usual stops. That's a departure at about 4am for a 9am arrival. Currently, the earliest train heading northbound leaves at 7:15am. I believe construction is usually done at night, so that wouldn't really work. Also, you can't really run a train for primarily overnight guests, as the capacity of one train is likely greater than the bed base in North Creek. The only potential for a train is to run from Albany, via Schenectady and Saratoga. A 6am departure would arrive by 8:10, and a 4:30pm departure from North Creek would arrive back to Albany at 6:40. This essentially mirrors the Winter Park Express in Denver, which is also primarily for day trippers, and it is pretty well used.
The Empire Corridor service is facing two issues. One is the East River Tunnel construction. While the trains don't carry passengers through these tunnels, they use them to access Sunnyside Yard in Queens. Traditionally, the Empire trains were unidirectional, meaning they had to be turned around at each end of the trip. The only place to do that in NYC is Sunnyside Yard. Albany-Rensselaer has a wye junction for that. There are 4 tunnels, but only 3 will be available for the duration of the project, so schedules had to be reduced, and it was the non-revenue trips that got dropped first.
Amtrak mitigated this by operating most Empire trains as push/pull, by using depowered locomotives as cab control cars. This eliminates the need to turn the train around at the terminals. However, some trips must still use Sunnyside Yard, as they are stored there, and these were the ones that got dropped. The effect is that they dropped from 13 daily round trips to 10, but with the capacity of 11 due to the Maple Leaf and Adirondack operating combined south of Albany.
The other issue is that Amtrak is facing a severe equipment shortage, due to the premature retirement of several fleets, and just the aging nature of what is left. When the schedules were reduced, they were supposed to lengthen most of the remaining trains from 5 cars to 6 cars, but that never happened.
The result of this is that the trains sell out a lot quicker and charge much higher fares. It pissed a lot of people off, and the governor noticed. The response was to cap the Albany to New York fare at $99, restore one of the previously cancelled Amtrak trips, and add a new trip on Metro North. This works well because Metro North's schedules are very "peaky", meaning they run very frequent rush hour service, with much less frequent service at other times. So they have a lot of trains that sit in Grand Central all day until the evening rush. One of those can be sent to Albany and back in time for the evening rush, so it is essentially free equipment.
The Empire trains ran from Grand Central prior to 1991. They were moved to Penn Station to consolidate all intercity rail service there. They have temporarily operated from Grand Central on a few occasions since then, but did not in this situation because of Metro North's Park Avenue Viaduct project.
The Empire trains, while operated and branded as Amtrak, are not actually funded by Amtrak. New York State, through NYSDOT, pays Amtrak each year about $40M to both lease the equipment and operate the trains. NYSDOT could choose any operator for these trains though, so in this case, they looked to another state agency to do it. Because it is being paid for by NYSDOT, and not out of any MTA budget, it does not require expanding the Metropolitan Commuter Transportation District and its associated taxes to Columbia County and Rensselaer County (where the stations are). The trip is likely to be revenue-neutral as there is so much demand on the Albany-NYC route. As I mentioned earlier, it will use equipment that is normally sitting idle in Grand Central until the evening rush.
Metro North equipment is slower than Amtrak equipment. The equipment that will be used on this service has a top speed of 90 mph, though only 80 mph is currently achieved on the line south of Poughkeepsie. The line has a 95 mph section between Poughkeepsie and Rhinecliff, and a 110 mph section between Hudson and Albany. The Metro North trip will for this reason be slightly slower. Also, Grand Central is a longer route with some slow curves, while the route to Penn Station is more direct. It is not always cheaper to do NYC to Philly on NJ Transit / Septa. Amtrak fares are very inconsistent however, as they use dynamic pricing and yield management, while commuter rail fares are flat based on distance traveled. However, commuter rail agencies do tend to have almost yearly fare increases, while Amtrak does not.
