Big Proposal in NH

[saratogahalfday]

Massive Expansion Approved For New Hampshire Ski Resort

The Balsams is a step closer to getting their reconstruction and ski resort expansion projects off the ground. The Colebrook Chronicle and the Berlin Sun report that the Balsams project received co…

unofficialnetworks.com

 

[Peter Minde]

I know a little about Les Otten's history.... 1. Is he gonna run this into the ground, like American Ski Company. 2. Who's gonna drive all that way? Sounds like it needs more work than Big Tupper does.

 

[tirolski]

I know a little about Les Otten's history.... 1. Is he gonna run this into the ground, like American Ski Company. 2. Who's gonna drive all that way? Sounds like it needs more work than Big Tupper does.

Big Tupper was fun.

Here’s some folks BS-ing bout balsams today for some reasons.

Basecamp podcast: Les Otten talks reviving The Balsams in New Hampshire - New England Ski Journal

Les Otten was the latest guest on New England Ski Journal's Basecamp podcast to discuss the challenges of reviving The Balsams Resort.

www.skijournal.com

 

[snoloco]

I want to get excited about this, but Otten is everything wrong with skiing. He's all about the real estate, and not the skiing itself. All of his plans are dependant on unsustainable levels of timeshare sales, and this plan looks to be no exception.

He always overreaches and then goes bust, leaving someone else to pick up the mess he made. He should be banned from owning a ski area for life. I can't believe the suckers who keep loaning money to him.

 

[Harvey]

I want to get excited about this, but Otten is everything wrong with skiing. He's all about the real estate, and not the skiing itself. All of his plans are dependent on unsustainable levels of timeshare sales, and this plan looks to be no exception.

He always overreaches and then goes bust, leaving someone else to pick up the mess he made. He should be banned from owning a ski area for life. I can't believe the suckers who keep loaning money to him.

I'm not a fan of real estate at ski areas, it's one thing I love about Gore/WF/Belle and the private areas that don't have slopeside. But that real estate has paid for a lot of the improvements you like.

 

[tirolski]

He always overreaches and then goes bust, leaving someone else to pick up the mess he made. He should be banned from owning a ski area for life. I can't believe the suckers who keep loaning money to him.

Vail could come to the rescue if they still get access to cash when the time comes.

 

[Brownski]

Otten is everything wrong with skiing

He should be banned from owning a ski area for life

Seems a little hyperbolic. Yes, he blew it with ASC but I don’t think he was ever accused of any outright fraud was he? Why would anybody have the right to restrict his behavior in any way?

I can't believe the suckers who keep loaning money to him

Yeah, maybe. Then again, maybe it’ll be a big success. Who knows.

Personally, I don’t think another big east coast destination resort is what skiing needs. Skiing needs small, inexpensive, accessible family hills around population centers. Fixed grip lifts on 600 ft hills, Magic carpets, surface lifts, tent sales and swap meets for cheap gear, that kind of stuff.

 

[snoloco]

I'm not a fan of real estate at ski areas, it's one thing I love about Gore/WF/Belle and the private areas that don't have slopeside. But that real estate has paid for a lot of the improvements you like.

I'm not opposed to real estate development, but be smart about it. For example, I'm staunchly in favor of Killington's proposed village because they have a severe lodging shortage, and the year-round business to support it. Don't build more than you can sell, don't take on excessive debt, and don't get yourself into a position where you're relying on real estate sales to fund operations and maintenance. Using real estate revenue to fund capital improvements is a highly effective growth strategy, but once you're using it to fund operations or maintenance, it's effectively a ponzi scheme because you have to keep building and selling, and eventually you're going to oversupply demand.

Seems a little hyperbolic. Yes, he blew it with ASC but I don’t think he was ever accused of any outright fraud was he? Why would anybody have the right to restrict his behavior in any way?

I'm a Killington passholder, and he did more damage at Killington than any other ski area except Haystack which he flat out shut down. He literally closed and abandoned large parts of the mountain, failed to complete many promised capital improvements, and then ran it into the ground for a decade, leaving a rash of deferred maintenance and inadequate facilities for Powdr to fix when they took over. We still haven't fully recovered.

Personally, I don’t think another big east coast destination resort is what skiing needs. Skiing needs small, inexpensive, accessible family hills around population centers. Fixed grip lifts on 600 ft hills, Magic carpets, surface lifts, tent sales and swap meets for cheap gear, that kind of stuff.

It's true that skiing needs to be made more accessible. I believe ski resorts have a civic duty to the industry to lower the barriers to entry. There needs to be a constant stream of new skiers learning so they can replace those who are aging out. Unfortunately they don't seem to agree with me. What you're describing would help lower the barriers to entry. Large destination resorts are nice, but do not lower the barriers to entry. I'm also not convinced that the northeast has the demand to support an entirely new Killington-sized resort. However, the west desperately needs more ski areas.

 

[x10003q]

This is a pure real estate play and doomed to failure. It is in the middle of nowhere for US markets and not compelling terrain.

The only viable market is Canada, but the Canadian dollar is worth $.74US and interest rates are up around 7%. Canadians also have a lot of other choices on both sides of the border.

Les has been pushing this since 2014 and nobody would lend him money including the State of NH. Now he has found some kind of charity funding to get the ball rolling. It won't matter.
The cost to build out any ski area are insane and that is still true for the Balsams.

 

[Peter Minde]

Personally, I don’t think another big east coast destination resort is what skiing needs. Skiing needs small, inexpensive, accessible family hills around population centers. Fixed grip lifts on 600 ft hills, Magic carpets, surface lifts, tent sales and swap meets for cheap gear, that kind of stuff.

THIS.