Ski Big Tupper: Lower Mountain Tour

After getting the lowdown on ARISE and the Adirondack Club Resort from Jim LaValley, David Tomberlin offered to drive me over to the hill. The plan was to connect with Cliff Levers for a site tour. We chatted in the car on the way over.

NYSkiBlog: David, who are the key players at Big Tupper?

David Tomberlin: Last year, Jim functioned as Chairman of ARISE and the General Manager of Big Tupper. This year, Jim will continue to chair ARISE, but Zach White, who has worked at Titus and Whiteface, will step in as GM.

In addition to Zach, there will be three other paid employees on the hill. Bill Mozdzier will be our Mountain Manager. He’s a bit of a grooming legend. Cliff Levers, whom you’ll meet today, is already acting as our Lift Manager, and Don Dew Jr. is our Administrator.

Obviously, we couldn’t run Big Tupper without our volunteers. And experts from Paul Smith’s College and Whiteface will be providing consultation.

The Base Lodge

We arrived at the hill. It didn’t look like anyone was on-site. It was one of those rare moments when Cliff Levers wasn’t fixing something. David was sure he’d arrive soon, so we started poking around the base.

NYSB: What was the biggest obstacle to reopening?

David: The facility was dormant for 10 years. There were a ton of obstacles ranging from getting approvals from the various regulatory agencies; getting the lifts operational; making the lodge usable, cutting and clearing trails, and establishing a pool of volunteers that was large enough to take on the task.

Big Tupper's Great Room

NYSB: What will be Big Tupper’s operating schedule?

David: We’ll be operating the same as last season: Fridays, Saturdays, Sundays, and holiday Mondays. We may pick up a few more days during Christmas and Presidents week, depending on conditions. Keep in mind that we are not doing any snowmaking. We’re relying on Mother Nature. We skied 66 days last year and we were consistently complimented on the quality of our surfaces: beautiful skiing on natural snow.

NYSB: What about ticket prices? Day tickets, season passes etc.

David: Day passes will be $15. Season ticket prices are $150, students and seniors will be $75. A season pass for a family of four is $400.

Hall Chairs
Lift 1 Chairs

NYSB: Who are you expecting Big Tupper’s customers to be: locals, day trippers or overnight tourists? What kind of mix?

David: Based on last year, we expect 50% to be local, while the balance will be regional users — people traveling 20 miles or more.

NYSB: Will you advertise?

David: Little to none. Word of mouth about our ticket prices spread quickly, and we’re anticipating a 25-30% increase in skier visits this year. We did 8,000 visits last year.

Big Tupper's Lift 2

After taking pictures at the base area and chatting for a while we tried to raise Cliff Levers on David’s cell phone. No response. David could see that I was anxious to get up the hill and a little nervous that I wouldn’t. He very graciously offered to see how far up we could get in his car. I was surprised at the offer, but not about to turn it down.

NYSB: Which lifts will operate? At what point, if any, do you plan to re-open the Mt. Morris lift and terrain pod?

David: We will operate Chair 2 and the rope tow this season, and we are currently working on Chair 3, which will provide access to the entire mountain. Chair 3 is contingent upon approvals from the regulatory agencies, getting trails cleared, and having enough volunteers.

We crawled our way up the work road, up some very steep pitches to the top of Lift 2. The lift shack and the line looked to be in reasonably good shape.

View from Lift 2

NYSB: What terrain will be open?

David: From beginner to black diamond. The key is Lift 3. If we can get it online we’ll use Spruce Run to get over to our most challenging terrain under Lift 1.

NYSB: Will there be “enhancements” to the terrain, i.e. creation of glades, terrain park, border/skier cross course etc.?

David: Our goal is to develop a natural terrain park.

I started eyeing the summit. I’d come a long way to see Big Tupper and did not want to turn back without getting to the top. But clearly we weren’t going up there in David’s car. We headed back down to check out Lift 3.

The Summit's Black Diamond Terrain

NYSB: What is your tree skiing policy?

David: No out of bounds for now. We’ve been given a gift from the landowners, and we are sensitive to any increased liability issues. Tree skiing will probably be allowed once the resort is approved.

NYSB: Will you leave specific trails as bump runs?

David: We aren’t planning on having any bump runs.

NYSB: Any cross promotion with ORDA?

David: ORDA has been a terrific supporter, and we saw a big response last season from skiers that spent one day at Whiteface, and then decided to try Big Tupper. But we don’t have any specific promotions planned.

Big Tupper's Lift 3

I left David in the car, working the phone to see if he could raise anyone capable of getting me to the summit.  I jogged down to the bottom of Lift 3, which also looked to be in fairly good shape. It looked like a six-cylinder diesel unit.  I looked up the line trying to determine how long it would take to hike to the summit. I jogged back to the intersection where I’d left David to let him know of my plan. When I got back to the car, Cliff was arriving on a four-wheeler. We did introductions, and then I asked about the top.

NYSB: Cliff, do you have time to take me to the top?

Cliff: I’ve got the time, but I don’t think the truck will make it up there today. It’s just too muddy.

NYSB: The truck? What about this four-wheeler?

Cliff sized me up and then hesitated.

Cliff: Yea, this will make it up … you sure you want to do this?

NYSB: Let’s go.

Hangin on

Next: The Summit of Big Tupper

37 comments on “Ski Big Tupper: Lower Mountain Tour

  1. Harv, anyone share with you ACR’s vision of what the ski area will eventually look like? As admirable as ARISE’s volunteer efforts are, there is something incongruous between Big Tupper as it exists today and multi-million dollar Great Camps.

    I looked through the websites of ARISE, Big Tupper, and ACR, but I couldn’t find any specific information on the long-term plan for the ski area. The best look at the BT of the future that I could find came from a site plan on the Adirondack Council’s website. I assume that the current lifts will be replaced with modern, high-speed lifts, snowmaking will be installed, and lodge facilities built. After all, those types of facilities are expected by the potential buyers that ACR seems to be targeting. But exactly when will those improvements occur… after a certain number of the Great Camps are sold? And what’s going to happen in the meantime with Big Tupper? Will ARISE volunteers continue to operate it on a shoestring budget, and then just hand over the keys to the place to ACR when ACR is ready, so that the Millionaires can “cut first tracks on their very own ski mountain” (quoted directly from ACR’s website)?

    The thing that struck me looking at the site plan is how out-of-scale the ski area looks to the number of housing units. This looks to be a ski area not too much bigger than say, West Mountain in Queensbury. As many have already pointed out, it’s difficult to envision demand for 500+ housing units in connection with a ski area of that size.

    In any case, best of luck to the developers. I hope that the ski area gets revitalized, the development gets built and the Northern Adirondack economy prospers. In the meantime, consider a visit to The Wild Center in Tupper Lake, an outstanding museum well worth the 2.5 hour drive from where I live. We’ve visited each of the last 4 summers with our kids: they love it and we do too.

  2. Hmmmm… Zach White. He was prosecuted last year for stealing thousands of dollars of electricity while being the head of Titus Mt. He did this for multiple years to get free snowmaking (he bypassed the meter). He also was charged with illegally disposing of sewage directly into a nearby stream. I have no idea what he is like personally, maybe he is like a robin hood of the ski industry!

    No tree skiing?! No Bumps?!

    As I said in my previous posts, I would like to see BT survive for the good of the community, but I hope they also do it right!

  3. I love those teardrop-shaped chairs on Lift 1. I remember seeing pix of those from Big White in British Columbia, but they were on a HSQ.

    I’m sure that the Snowjournal lift nutcases will know, but does anyone know the manufacturer or those? Hall?

    One more question: is the ski area called “Big Tupper” or “Ski Big Tupper?” I never understand why some mountains put the word “ski” in front of their names.

  4. In response to Jeff, the correlation between number of units and size of the ski area terrain is important, but the old rules have been modified. Resorts with higher capacity lifts offering more skiing in less time actually will support a greater number of units per ski-able terrain. Skiers spend less time on the mountain and get a lot of vertical in a more relaxed attitude knowing most don’t need to ski for hours on end to get there monies worth.

    Good Luck BT.

  5. ARISE is just a branch of the ACR, set up to generate support for the project by reopening the mountain. They hope to show the regulatory agencies that there is widespread support for the project when in reality most people just want the mountain open again and really don't care about the big influx of wealthy second homeowners. I’m all for getting some kind of development to get the mountain up and running fullsteam again but not this one. The financing scheme alone has the possibility/probability of raising all the existing taxpayers taxes through the roof. If this thing needs a PILOT program so the developer can make a bunch of money let him go somewhere else. PILOT program for a slew of wealthy second homeowners??? I don’t think so!

  6. Everyone can benefit from development done properly. If one looks at Tupper today and compare that with Tupper 1969 and if someone or group would like to develop a resource (all have a right to use) why watch Tupper continue to struggle. Tupper can provide a great quality of life for generations but it needs investment. That seems a reasonable approach.

  7. I agree the main focus of this development should be the ski slope. Tupper lake is a very small isolated community.. it’s not Lake Placid or Lake George. Most locals will not pay $70 a day to ski at Big Tupper. Lets face it, after a day of skiing where do ya go to eat, shop or have entertainment? Off to lake Placid. ACR is generous to allow ARISE to operate the Mt. We are grateful but they are getting a tremendous amount of work done for free. Everyone has a motive for participating, real estate agents will benefit from sales of properties, hotel owners, building supply companies and locals hoping for employment positions. One thing I believe everyone has in common is a love of skiing and the hope Tupper will have a resort we can be proud of!

  8. The site plan that Jim showed me is significantly different from the plan in the pdf linked above. The plan I saw had only great camps and clustered housing and no single family homes outside of the great camps. Also the pdf version shows no development in the separate 1200 acre tract. No question it’s a big project. In Jim’s mind it’s as small as it can be, and still be viable. I’m not a real estate guy, so I have no way to evaluate that assumption.

    Jim told me about the Zach White story. He thought it should be included in our piece but I elected to leave it out. Zach was charged with second-degree grand larceny, criminal tampering and other related charges. Maximum penalties for these charges are serious – 15 years in prison, I believe. Ultimately part of Zach’s sentence included 700 hours of community service, which were served at Big Tupper. It’s how BT and Zach connected.

  9. >Ok, y'all, How about addressing the concerns and points Anonymous#1 wrote and not attack him personally. When people can't stay on point in a debate, it shows their opponent's arguement to be the correct one.

    This is a discussion group. Not an advertisement section. Meaning, when people post information, that information is subject to cross examination and rebuttals.

    Therefore, if Anonymous#1 is wrong, then Dave Tomberline should cheerfully tell us where the errors are.

    Mr. Tomberline, you have our attention and this space is free and available to you to clear the air and get on the record. No tap dancing please.

  10. Dave Tomberlin has an awful, awful lot to say for someone who has lived in Tupper Lake a very, very short period of time. The March 24th edition of the Tupper Lake Free Press screams, in a front page story, that the mountain was open for 40 days, a far cry from 66. Almost anything this man says must be taken with a grain of salt as his information and dialogue are continually sketchy and somewhat disingenuous, at best.

    Of the four paid employees at the mountain, Zach White is one of TWO convicted felons, which is an oddity I find kind of interesting if not disturbing. On the other hand, anyone googling SUNRISE Savings and Loan will get an eyeful of information concerning the resort’s frontman Michael Foxman. Speaking of the mountain staff, anyone who tried to contact Don Dew Jr. at the mountain last year will tell you they had better luck contacting Amelia Earhart and Judge Crater. Don also has a difficult time answering e-mails. Bill Mozdzier does a wonderful job grooming and setting up the trails and one wonders why he isn’t managing the whole operation. One can only guess he’s too pressed for time.

    Harv might be better off getting off the mountain and going into the village itself to interview business owners and local people for a better perspective. Most of the info he will cull will be assuredly dreary. The local tax situation is insane, the population has dropped from 7500 in 1965 to less than 3400 in 2010, there is a rapidly dwindling tax base, the infrastructure is about shot, there are empty buildings and eyesores everywhere you look and a continuing migration of the younger adults as soon as they are able. The town government has numerous problems, such as yet another bad audit, the Amell/Dattola hiring scandal, perceived problems with Mrs. Strader and on and on and on. Franklin County is another hotbed of difficulty. Locals will be shocked at the upcoming county tax increases. The resort’s P.I.L.O.T. plan remains a bone of contention and a big problem for the citizenry to understand and swallow .

    A.R.I.S.E. themselves may have their own problems. Rumors swirl throughout the village about inconsistencies with their 501 c(3) non-profit status. There is talk that their attornies are burning the midnight oil changing the non-profit status, spinning off Big Tupper as a separate NON-PROFIT entity and discontinuing altogether their highly touted but short lived business council. Rumors abound and there is speculation that there were irregularities, if not illegalities, concerning A.R.I.S.E. spending, donations, banners and the placement of kiosks in the village. Harv might ask Jim LaValley to clear some of these rumors up and also to clarify why they are asking the general public for a further $60,000 in donations and where this money will go and if that type of financing is part of a long term A.R.I.S.E. budget and spending plan. There are about 300 homes, businesses, camps, lake places and other land parcels for sale within 50 miles of Tupper Lake right now. Many of these are distressed priced and undoubtedly will be further reduced this coming spring. The more curious thinkers in the village wonder who might be compelled to purchase the 600 planned dwellings in the A.R.I.S.E. master plan. At a 15 year buildout, that’s 40 new large homes per year and one also wonders who will build them ? So many questions remain it boggles the mind. After 9 years the A.C.R. group have clarified little or nothing. And they still would like everyone to believe that opening this rundown, almost decrepit ski area for 40 days or less per year is the answer. The only thing more amazing is that so many have drunk the kool-aid. GOD help us all .

  11. This last poster clearly has an axe to grind. He sounds like he is one of the wacko liberal granola crunchers that have fought against the Tupper Mt for the last 9 yrs. How does he propose to make the area’s economy better since he is against any development what so ever in the ADK?

  12. Seems to have a whole lot more facts than you, Mr. Anonymous. Whose personal “economy” are you advancing?

    Jeez, community service for second degree grand larceny and criminal tampering, whatever that is. Very tacky, indeed.

  13. Why would anyone pass right through North Creek and drive another hour and 19 minutes to get to Tupper Mt. to ski?

  14. The ACR development plan may have got initial funding if this were 2005 – 2007. Now, with the next capital markets bubble many years off in the future, I doubt we’ll see construction any time soon.

  15. Anonymous – I do have an “awful, awful” lot to say on this issue as I am a resident and business owner in Tupper Lake.

    Yes, I am a relatively new resident of Tupper Lake. And, yes, I have lived here for a very, very short period of time. However, I have quickly grown to love this town, its residents and this very special place.

    Since you don’t have the courage to use your real name and choose to hide behind the ID “Anonymous” I will assume you don’t want to have a true, legitimate debate on the facts.

    You don’t tell us if you are a resident of Tupper Lake, or offer any alternatives or suggestions on how to improve the future here. If you will come out from the shadows, I would be glad to have a serious debate and discussion on your concerns.

    David Tomberlin (proudly using my real name).

  16. >It's ok with me if you want to post here. (Actually the post on ARISE and ACR may make more sense.)

    One problem with Anonymous posting … there have been (7) Anon posts in this thread. It makes it hard to figure out who has said what.

    You can still remain anonymous by using the Name/URL choice in the dropdown menu. You don't have to enter a URL and you can choose ANY name you like – you could be "Prince Charles" if you like. As long as each Anon poster continues to use the same screenname each time, we'll know who has said what.

  17. >Realistic observer had some great points in his latest post . I n as much as the A.C.R. people have been at it for 9 years already and if you add r.o.'s ten years anyone with just a touch of common sense can deduce that the A.C.R. AND their cohorts at ARISE are in big trouble .
    No one ever said that ARISE's efforts at Big Tupper was a wasted effort . It most certainly was a worthwhile and successful effort to get the mountain open for the locals . Perhaps the college population from the nearby communities will gladly take advantage of the $15 daily charge and it's likely that the more curious will give it a try once to see what it's all about but it is hard to believe that people will bypass either Whiteface or Gore to Ski Big Tupper .It's really good information to know that during the winter there are very , very few bars , restaurants , gas stations , etc .open after 8 or 9 o'clock at night . Hell , there are very few of those places left to begin with .A rule of thumb to always abide by is to have at least a 1/2 a tank of gas whenever you are near Tupper when it's dark out . How sad is that ?

  18. >Ah, yes a vigorous and healthy exchange of ideas!

    Realistic observe wrote…"The Ski Bowl Village at Gore Mountain is an excelent example of what is feasible to develop given the current economy."

    Oooook! So what exactly is going on there @ the Ski Bowl Village?

    Is the FRONT STREET PROJECT a)vibrant and compelling , b) a work in progress , c) languishing and stagnant , d) d.o.a.?

    As a " Realistic observe with plenty of experience" Can you tell us what's happening at the Ski Bowl Village? Construction was supposed to start last year. I recall Front Street saying they'ld have at least several homes and a public building done by now but yet nothing has been unveiled. Wat up with dat?

    Public money has been invested to support the new Ski Bowl Village but it's not sprouting and it's already missing deadlines. Is that the example you point to as what's possible in this economy? So far it looks like public $$$$ invested in support of a dead real estate venture.

    The concerns people are voicing here about the BT project may be are exemplified by the Ski Bowl Village. Understandably, some may not want their town of 4,000 people to be on the hook for tens millions of dollars if the project fails. The resulting increase of taxes could be killer for Tupper Lake and impoverishment for it's residents.

  19. >"whoreallyknows"-lots of good points but for the sake of accuracy Foxman first proposed this project in January 2004, his first permit app to the APA was March 2005. I know the ARISE folks like to exaggerate everything so please don't further the BS by quoting incorrect timelines. At best its been 6 1/2 yrs since the project was announced. And although Foxman and Co like to say the "process" is slowing them down, they are the ones who have set the timetable, no one else. F-man put the brakes on in March of 2007 when the APA said the project would have to go through the Adjudicatory Hearing process. This hearing was ordered after F-man got 2 "notices of incomplete" on his first 2 permit apps submitted to the APA. The reason he got these notices was due to the fact he wouldn't answer many questions the APA posed to him. He will now be compelled to answer these same questions only this time under oath in a legal proceeding. I'm sure his standard line will be revived soon. The old "The environmental groups are all trying to stall the project or kill it by asking questions". He could have started the hearing 3 plus years ago received a permit and we would now be looking at nothing because of the economy and his ridiculous scheme.

  20. >Harvey, here are a few "tough questions" you may want to pose to Mr Lavalley. 1. how is your big ski in-ski out development going up at Titus? (2 VACANT units,prices dropped by over 100k on each,taxes overdue.) 2.Can you name one investor other than your partner, Tom Lawson, putting their own money in the ACR project. (Tom is the guy whos' been buying up storefronts in Tupper and they are the vacant ones ARISE points to as eveidence Tupper is in "dire" straights. 3. Why is Lawson behind on his taxes on 3 of the 4 properties he owns in Tupper? 4. Why was Lawsons' electric service removed from his house in April 2010 for not paying his huge electric bill? 5. Why did Foxman go 3 yrs without paying his property and school taxes on Big Tupper? Is paying 12% interest with penalties good business sense? It's kind of hypocritical to hear these Big Shots tell us all our taxes will be going down when the ACR is built, all the while they can't seem to pay their own taxes. Just a few observations on these so called Developers.

  21. “This is a discussion group.”

    Not to get too technical but this is a blog. Our goal for this piece was to understand the scope of the ACR project, see the hill and show our readers the progress. Many of us, myself included, didn’t get the opportunity to ski the Big Tupper last year, and in addition there have been some real improvements this summer, with the potential addition of Lift 3.

    Follow this link for the Big Tupper Discussion. Comments, debate, cross examination and rebuttal are certainly welcome on the blog. But extensive examination of the various issues, by multiple posters, are more easily conducted in The Forum.

  22. I strongly disagree with those new population figures. The old water tower on upper park street had the population at 7200 as far back as 1960. There hasn’t been anywhere near 5000 people in years and years. I’m reaching out to have concise figures by 4 this afternoon. I will be posting memos and questions throughout the day for Dave Tomberlin and any others of the ARISE hierarchy. Stay tuned. Let’s continue this dialogue and see where it takes us. Thanks to Harve for providing a place for Big Tupper Discussion. See you there!

  23. Okay, I’m not comfortable at all signing into anything at that site. No offense but if it is okay I’ll continue to post here.

  24. Memo to Dave Tomberlin, Part 2.

    Dave we can discuss, debate or spin anything you like right here. I confronted you with numerous questions and you chose to ignore them all. I will try to simplify matters further right here.

    1) When the A.C.R. regains control of Big Tupper from the ARISE group how soon will they start ski resort construction at the mountain:

    a) immediately
    b) within 5 years
    c) within 10 years
    d) after all 600 residences and outbuildings and complete infrastructure are up and running ?

  25. The Ski Bowl Village at Gore Mountain is an excellent example of what is feasible to develop given the current economy. The proposal for Tupper is far more extensive and includes rebuilding the entire skiing infrastructure. Totally unrealistic in the current environment and very unlikely without some supremely patient money. Tupper skiing will never match Gore skiing and Tupper is nearly 90 minutes of drive time further from major population centers. I can’t imagine anyone passing Gore to ski (or buy a home at) Tupper.

    While it might be entertaining to argue all the fine points, the ACR project doesn’t make economic sense today and is unlikely to attract funding without the arrival of another Real Estate bubble. Since we are at the bottom of the cycle right now, 10 years could pass before anything is built at Tupper.

    In the meantime ARISE is doing a nice job with what they have in place and I hope their modest efforts continue to attract skiers to Tupper.

  26. Memo to Dave Tomberlin, Part 3

    Are there any problems with ARISE as it currently stands and are there any changes being considered in the immediate future,
    a) YES
    b) NO ?

    How would you best describe the North Creek Snow Bowl and the FRONT STREET PROJECTS

    a)vibrant and compelling
    b) a work in progress
    c) languishing and stagnant
    d) d.o.a.?

    When is the last time you skied

    a) whiteface
    b) gore
    c) pisgah
    d) st.lawrence sno-bowl ?

  27. I hope the dialogue continues and that you personally look into some of the links I’ve posted for better information or at the very least, a different viewpoint than the one presented by those scamps at ARISE. Personally I don’t believe the A.C.R. will EVER happen. I’m fearful for Tupper’s future , I’m 59 and have lived there for a great portion of my life. The canary in the coalmine is the townhouse project on Demars Blvd. which is a separate 40-something units project which just got APA approval. It will be interesting to see if this project starts this coming spring. In my mind the A.C.R. defeated itself by being too big in concept and practicality.

  28. Both wikipedia.org and city-data.org give Tupper’s VILLAGE population as 3735 with a decrease of 3.5% since the year 2000 . Thiscoinsides with population figures given at the old chamber of commerce site . google “population of tupper lake, n.y. for concise figures all.

  29. Memo to Dave Tomberlin, Part 4

    Is Oscar’s Hickory House the very best ever meat market in the history of the known universe ? a)YES or b) YES .

    It was a trick question Dave to see if you were still paying attention . The correct answer is, and always will be, YES!

    A persistent rumor floating around Tupper Lake is that the ARISE shenanigans with The Nature Conservancy, and the entire tricked up right of way gimmick, was to expedite the 1200 acre great lot sale to a high profile real estate client . Is that client a) Tim McGraw, b) Tiny Tim, c) Brian McNaught or d) Little Red Riding Hood ?

    Who do you think will win the upcoming highway superintendent election a) Amell , b) Dechene , c) don't know , d) don’t care ?

    I know some of these questions may seem tedious and superfluous but i hope to tie it all in when and if Dave chooses to answer and share his viewpoints. Stay tuned.

  30. Very, very interesting Joeski. You and the others who have raised points here questioning this project seem credible. Judging from what you relayed to us about these people, they do seem suspect. Their tendency to avoid answering questions will likely lead to them abandon this blog/board and it’s inquiries. Also, the following will make them very hesitant…

    “The reason he got these notices was due to the fact he wouldn’t answer many questions the APA posed to him. He will now be compelled to answer these same questions only this time under oath in a legal proceeding.”

    They’re not gonna like having to do that. If they themselves are the ones delaying this project and then blaming it on enviro groups, that’s a bad sign.

  31. Great questions Joeski. You’re right about the timeline too, my 9 should have been a 6 and i think I knew that too. Apparently Dave and Jim have better things to do than respond to the questions and/or challenge the points raised. Joeski’s question are right to the point and take the fun out of this but I will gladly defer to him for the time being. I have a ton of questions to ask but will wait til we get some answers on the ones already posted today.

  32. I’ve just been informed that the first memo to Dave is no longer here. I have no idea why. Memo 1 had mostly to do with Zach Miller and the mess at Titus. I referred people to adirondackbasecamp.com and a story there from April 4, 2008. I also mentioned an article from the Plattsburgh Press-Republican, also dated April 4 , 2008 . The third referral was to a story in the Lake Placid News dated October 22, 2008.

    I also took issue with how LaValley and Zach “connected” and offered an article in the Albany Times-Union from December 25, 2005 that I thought was closer to the truth. There was nothing offensive or rude in any of this if you exclude the fact that Zach was arrested for a felony of improperly storing 100 CUBIC YARDS OF HUMAN WASTE. I questioned ARISE’s judgement in placing this fellow in an environmental stewardship position at Big Tupper. I suggest that everyone peruse these for factual background and continuity.

  33. LOL, sorry, I meant to type SOLID WASTE, NOT HUMAN WASTE. I was startled and moving too fast because of my missing comment. My bad and I apologize to all.

  34. WhoReallyKnows … I get an email with each posted comment. I saw your Memo 1 email this morning, and when it didn’t appear on the blog, I’d assumed that you had deleted it. If you don’t have a copy of it I could email it to you. PM me at [email protected].

    Harvey Road regulars know that I try very hard not to delete comments. In fact, outside of accidental double posts, and obvious spam, we have never deleted a comment on the blog or the forum. This dates back to the origin of Harvey Road in 2008. I reserve the to delete comments if I determine that something is slanderous or patently unfair. This blog entry has certainly tested my dedication to free speech.

    I reached out to Jim LaValley yesterday and asked him if he would be willing to read through the comments on this thread and respond. He agreed.

    His answer is lengthy, so I will post it in the forum in the Big Tupper thread. You can read it there.

    If you’re interested in constructive dialogue, I strongly encourage to join the forum. It’s extremely simple to register – the whole process takes under a minute. And if you are concerned about anonymity, you’re just as anonymous on the forum as you are on the blog.

    I’ve decided to lock this thread. I've never done this before, but I can do so, and still leave all existing comments visible. If you have more to say, and for some reason do not want to join the forum, I’ll leave the first post, the one that focused on ARISE, ACR and Big Tupper open for comments. One last thing. Gore is my home mountain. At times, discussion of issues surrounding our hill can get contentious. Often parties strongly disagree. But one thing that binds us together is our love for our hill and our town. After visiting Tupper Lake recently and reading all the comments, I think most of you love your town too. Thanks to everyone for your passion.

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